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🎧 Unwrapping Peace | Out of Sync Christmas With Kathy, Johan and Wendi


Hosts Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs are joined by peace-loving expert Kathy Boschmann to explore the true meaning of peace. They delve into the counterfeit forms of peace, the importance of addressing societal issues, and the need for authentic, bold action. The episode encourages listeners to embrace the peace of Christ within and extend it to others, fostering restorative relationships and addressing societal challenges.


[04:06] Grew up in chaotic foster parent household.

[09:41] Dehumanization leads to conflict, unrest, and suffering.

[13:28] Bringing peace and learning together at work.

[15:20] Conflicting situations need bold, peaceful presence.

[19:20] Shalom promotes restoration and wholeness, active presence.

[21:41] Avoiding discomfort by hiding true self. Awkwardness at government and church meetings.

[26:37] Approach conflicts with a calm, leading presence.

[29:28] Choose battles wisely, foster creative dialogue.

[30:49] Encourage dialogue for peace despite differing worldviews.

Episodes Mentioned

Johan's Parents: Fostering Healing and Love

Kathy the Harmonizer

Podcast Transcript

Johan Heinrichs [00:00:02]:

Merry Christmas, everyone. Welcome to Journey with care where we're unwrapping the true spirit of the season. Join us as we dive into some Christmas traditions we've embraced as Christians. So get out your candy canes, stockings, Christmas trees, carols, ho ho. Hold on here, let's back it up because beneath the tinsel and carols, there's a deeper story to be told. This advent will be daring to reassess our Hallmark Christianity for a more honest yet hopeful look at Middle Eastern Jesus, Emmanuel, God with us. So get ready for an Advent journey that goes beyond the holiday glitz as we question, explore and unravel truth. Because walking in light of that truth will ultimately make this season more meaningful to us.

Johan Heinrichs [00:00:54]:

This is our Advent series, the out of sync Christmas.

Wendi Park [00:01:02]:

Around the table in our cozy Shasta camper, we have with us our producer Johann Heinrichs and our peace loving expert Kathy Boschman here around this table. And I'm so excited to get into this heated conversation about peace. But before we dive into the conversation, let me tell you about this week's sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by DG Inspired, your go to creative powerhouse for elevating your ideas into stunning reality. Whether you're dreaming up a brand refresh, an outstanding website, or eye catching graphics, DG inspired has got your back. Dorlin and her team have been creative geniuses behind care impact and can do the same for you. Head over to to bring your ideas to life. All right, let's get into the conversation.

Wendi Park [00:01:50]:

Welcome to the podcast, guys.

Kathy Boschmann [00:01:52]:

Thank you.

Wendi Park [00:01:53]:

This is a lot of fun. We don't always have three people from the team in a conversation on this, but I'm really excited to dive right in. But before we do, Kathy, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Kathy Boschmann [00:02:05]:

Well, I am a Winnipeg from birth and I have a husband and one son whom we adopted from Ethiopia. And yeah, I've been part of the church community since I was twelve. And I won't tell you how old I am now.

Wendi Park [00:02:21]:

We'll be at peace with that. But what's your relationship with peace?

Kathy Boschmann [00:02:24]:

Growing up, I think of peace in the home. When I used to ask my dad, what do you want for your birthday? What do you want for Christmas? Peace and quiet. That's all he wanted with a house full of kids. So peace probably was in my childhood was about being quiet, about being fitting into whatever was going on with the family and not ruffling anything up. Just being present, but not necessarily making a big deal about who I am or my place in the family or stirring anything up or evoking emotion within the family.

Wendi Park [00:02:58]:

And this summer we had the privilege of having you on the podcast. We were working through the Enneagram series and you are a harmonizer at Enneagram nine. So you naturally have a harmonizing presence about you. Everybody likes you in the room. What's that been like?

Kathy Boschmann [00:03:14]:

I'm not sure if I've ever analyzed it. I mean, if that's who I am, I don't really notice it. But as you were saying that I thought, I think I have a radar for tension. So in that space, then, if I walked into a place of tension, whether it was in my family or school group or whatever, then it would be very easy to naturally, because that's who I am, just to try and ease that tension within that group.

Wendi Park [00:03:44]:

And Johann, what about you?

Johan Heinrichs [00:03:46]:

What about me? For you listeners who haven't listened to the episode I did with my parents, fostering, healing and love, I think it's called in October. Yeah, go back to listen to that. In fact, you should press pause right now and do that before I continue speaking. Go ahead.

Wendi Park [00:04:04]:

Awkward silence.

Johan Heinrichs [00:04:06]:

Yeah. So if you go back to that episode, you would know that I lived in a bit of a chaotic household. Not bad household. My parents were foster parents and I've had over 50 siblings growing up. Not at the same time, thank goodness, because that would not be peaceful. But as one of their only two bio kids, I really did seek peace when there was a lot of chaos in the home with a lot of children that were coming in and out, sometimes some a lot longer than others, but I would seek that peace out. Sometimes things get escalated in the home when there's a lot of kids and sometimes there's yelling. I would be the one to shush and it would drive people yelling crazy that I would do that.

Johan Heinrichs [00:04:48]:

So maybe it's a little bit less peaceful to do that, but I know I needed just that calmness a little bit, I think, of that Bible verse, let us reason together. I love that verse. I don't know, that might be out of context even maybe if we had.

Wendi Park [00:05:01]:

More reasoning, we would have less unrest. Well, it's interesting, I was sharing with you earlier, but my dog can go into a room and feel unrest. He's very attuned when there's anxiety in the room. When there's unrest, there's underlying tensions. We don't even have to be raising our voice, but he knows when there's tension in the house. So. Interesting. So you and my dog have that in common.

Wendi Park [00:05:24]:

We don't have to keep that in.

Johan Heinrichs [00:05:27]:

I'm going to bring it back to you. Wendy, what about you growing up? What was your relationship with peace in your household?

Wendi Park [00:05:33]:

Yeah, well, I was raised a Mennonite pacifist. I was raised to not seek war, to bring peace. But I also say I have an ancestry that was conflict avoidant, and so that wasn't necessarily peace. There's also a false sense of peace by avoiding conflict. And so that's just the waters I swam in that I was raised in. But also, people will know me as a little spicy on this podcast, I'm an Enneagram aid, a challenger. And so I've had to come to grips with who I am in Christ. And that pursuit of justice and desire to make things right is very strong for me.

Wendi Park [00:06:13]:

So often I could be misunderstood as wanting to dive into conflict when actually I love peace fiercely. I want to see things made right, and I want to see justice for the oppressed. And so part of my background in my studies, I studied peace conflict resolution, and I did an internship in Palestine, in Israel doing peace mediation. And something came alive with me in those places. I'm the type of person that would run into a fiery house and not away. I don't know why. I think that's just how God created me. But, yeaH, that's a bit of who.

Johan Heinrichs [00:06:54]:

You know, when you mentioned how you were in Palestine, and, I mean, there's not peace there right now, Israel and Palestine, not at all. And we're going into a Christmas season where we think about advent, and this is the week that we meditate on peace and what it means to be in peace and the Prince of peace. But that's not the reality for everybody around the world right now, is it?

Wendi Park [00:07:18]:

No, not at all. And when we expose ourselves to some of the unrest, it's easy to get overwhelmed and actually be paralyzed by it and say, you know what? There is no peace, and become very pessimistic. But what I found when I was walking the streets in Palestine and there were snipers and there was military and there was unrest, and I saw it from all the different sides. That's why I went there. And it was at a time there were no tourists, but yet I found peace in those places. It transcends politics, it transcends different racial groups and religions, but I found God's peace with me in those spaces. But I'm also brought to the verse of, like in Jeremiah, peace. Peace, where there is no peace.

Wendi Park [00:08:03]:

Like, we can put our heads in the sand and look for Hallmark Peace, that counterfeit, kind of superficial harmony. It's like that feel good, a little potpourri scent, and that's not accurate.

Kathy Boschmann [00:08:15]:

When I was 19, I was in Israel. I lived there for almost six months, and I lived on a cubits up north. And my brother in the family that I was adopted into, he was in the military. So he would come home and put his machine gun under the sewing table before he came and sat at the table for dinner. And it was such a wild experience for me. I traveled across the country by myself by bus to visit some people in Tel Aviv. And there's the signs on the bus saying, if there's any packages that are unattended to, please let the driver know. Exit the bus, because it could be a bomb, basically, is what it was saying.

Kathy Boschmann [00:08:56]:

And I remember being in that space, kind of like, what am I doing here? I am this young woman traveling across the country. MOst people spoke English, so it wasn't that difficult. But realizing that I was in a place that wasn't at peace, there was always this constant threat of war, but yet I had this experience with the people that I lived with on the kibbutz and just being able to be a living presence of Christ in that place and knowing that they're just people. We often put different people groups on a pedestal, but really, in the end, they are just people. God loves people. And we had the chance to go into Gaza. We had the chance to go into these places and just realize we are all just people.

Wendi Park [00:09:41]:

Well, I think therein lies the key, though. We're humanizing people. We're seeing people made in the image of God. And, you know, the only way we can be a conflict with others when we dehumanize somebody, when we think them less than me or less than the image of God, we have to put ourselves in the place to call a group in order to annihilate people. How could we if we don't dehumanize them? Or I would also argue here in Canada, yeah, we don't have the same conflict that we see in the news in the Middle East. However, I would argue that here in Canada, we have such unrest. We might not have snipers on our rooftops, we might not have militia at our doorstep, and we're not under curfew, under siege. We're not refugees.

Wendi Park [00:10:28]:

However, there is incredible unrest within our nation, an incredible invitation for the Church to be agents of peace when we would rather retreat and have this false sense of peace, really? And just like, let's just stay with me, myself, and I so that we don't have to be exposed to those things right here in our land.

Johan Heinrichs [00:10:52]:

And there's an unending amount of topics right now, including the Israel Palestine, that can divide us and break any peace between our families, our friends, and our churches. For me, I've never been to a war zone like you guys have been. I'm stuck in my little North American.

Wendi Park [00:11:10]:

Well, you did with 50 siblings.

Johan Heinrichs [00:11:12]:

Well, yeah, that's a different war zone. A few battles there as well. My instrumental piece growing up was not putting a machine gun under the sewing table. It was putting my guitar under the couch, because that's what Fred Penner did, only he put it in a cave on television, if you remember. For you Fred Penner fans out there, I was a big fan. So that was my little cave is putting under the couch. But I know when I ever had unrest inside of me, and I know this is common. Like, this is something I believe that the Lord has done where he allows the artists to come out to bring peace.

Johan Heinrichs [00:11:49]:

The ones that will paint, the ones that will sing, the ones that will write. It brings people together. That's my instrument of peace.

Wendi Park [00:11:55]:

That's your weapon of mass construction.

Johan Heinrichs [00:11:58]:

When I feel unrest, I will go lock myself into a room, and I'll play my guitar and sing because that brings me peace on the inside.

Kathy Boschmann [00:12:06]:

I was very much the same when I used to come home from university and in those early years, struggling with my faith and where I was going and questions. And I would sit at the piano and my mom would always say, I know when you've had a good day and a bad day by how you play.

Wendi Park [00:12:24]:

Interesting. I would say for myself, when I've experienced unrest and I want peace, you know what I go to, it's not an instrument, generally. Or into my quiet room, I'm reading. I'm scouring the news. I'm reading the UN Declaration of Human Rights and stuff, because I want to know. I want to know the deep rootedness of this. I'm reading theology. I'm looking at the scripture.

Wendi Park [00:12:50]:

What does it say, these things? So that's sort of where I retreat to. I'm saying, like, there's got to be something here.

Johan Heinrichs [00:12:57]:

I'm going to interject there for those listening. I know you're just kind of listening to our conversation here, but what brings you peace? What have you done in those moments? As a podcast, it's important to have these conversations with each other, and we want to hear from you as well, because again, we want it to go beyond just listening, but going into conversation is where we're going to see transformation. So if you can connect with us, you can go to Journeywithcare Ca and let us know. How do you find peace on the inside? Anyway, that's just my little side.

Wendi Park [00:13:28]:

I love it. Yeah. This is a conversation that everybody's welcome to at the table because we are all processing, we're all learning together, and that's what I get to do at my job with you guys and other people on the team. We're learning together. Right. What does it mean to bring peace? And honestly, care impact was created in a sense, to bring peace in some of the most conflicting situations, particularly with the most vulnerable, those in child welfare. It is complex, the reconciliation that is needed, particularly between the Church and within society. There's a lot of unrest and we can't just go peace, peace where there is no peace, there is a lot of unrest.

Wendi Park [00:14:11]:

And what I love doing with you guys and other people listening that have been supporting this ministry, you're in the trenches together.

Kathy Boschmann [00:14:20]:

When I found out we were going to talk about peace right away, I went to the blessing that Moses spoke over Israel called the Iranic blessing. And part of that is that may the Lord give you his peace and realizing it is something to give and that the meaning in that is nothing missing, nothing broken. It's wholeness. I know that's what we are striving for is wholeness. Not just wholeness, for the Church to be all that she is to be, but also wholeness in our world, that we're all being community with one another as God designed.

Johan Heinrichs [00:14:55]:

Yeah, like in Colossians three, where it says, let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts. This isn't just let peace rule in whatever you do. This is the peace of Christ. So when you look at Christ's example, how he walked out peace, how we walked out interactions with others, this is what's supposed to rule, how we actually walk out our lives.

Wendi Park [00:15:15]:

It's more than a feeling.

Johan Heinrichs [00:15:16]:

This should dictate how we live our lives. That's what ruling our hearts means.

Wendi Park [00:15:20]:

So when we go into conflicting situations, we don't have to feel that we have to fix the problem or have wisdom that no one else has necessarily. I feel so ordinary in conflicting situations that I'm invited into. But the peace of Christ within me comes with me, and my presence matters not because I am that person, but Christ in me is the hope of glory, right? And his peace goes with us. And sometimes it's more about showing up and being bold. Peace is bold. It's not retreating. It's not going La la. Yes, we do need to go into our room sometimes and we have to have that time.

Wendi Park [00:16:02]:

Even Jesus did that. But I would love to riff with you guys. Three different kinds of counterfeit forms of peace that many of us will find familiar within our context. One of them would be pushing things under the rug. That is a counterfeit piece. And what I mean by that is like we're avoiding current reality to not feel that discomfort of the situation. We're confronted with an injustice. We're confronted with oppression.

Wendi Park [00:16:31]:

We're confronted with things that we'd rather push under the rug because I'd rather raise up my hands and sing Hallelujah than feel that pain that Jesus has exposed me to. Have you guys felt that or seen that?

Kathy Boschmann [00:16:44]:

I'm sure I've lived that. Just me personally, like just wanting to being that peacemaker or my motivated to have peace and feeling tension in the room, just like, okay, I'll do whatever it takes to make sure we can just smoothly sail through this situation. And often to my own detriment too, or the detriment of the situation, because perhaps it is a justice issue that should be brought up and talked through. Yeah, sometimes I get my awkwardness gets in the way of actually dealing with the situations.

Johan Heinrichs [00:17:17]:

One of the opposite things of peace to me is being ingenuine and unauthentic. It's like having your head in the sand and just we go through the motions of the Christianse language sometimes.

Wendi Park [00:17:31]:

I'm fine. I'm fine. Hallelujah. God is good.

Johan Heinrichs [00:17:34]:

God is good all the time. All the time. And yes, he is. That doesn't give us permission to ignore what's going on around us. It doesn't give us permission to close our eyes to the poverty and the injustices around us. It may not sound like that has anything to do with peace, but I really feel like if you want to really live in peace, you need to have that authenticity because there's a war inside of you if you're not.

Wendi Park [00:18:04]:

Yeah. And likewise, we could easily ignore some of our history with residential schools and the Enmark graves. We could easily ignore those challenging statistics, and not just statistics, but people on the streets begging for food that have homelessness, experiencing homelessness and addictions and great challenges. We could ignore some of the challenges that families are facing even now through the Christmas season because that would be in an interruption of our utopian Christmas experience. Sure, we can help once in a while and that feels good. But we do need to be authentic.

Kathy Boschmann [00:18:46]:

Something that came to mind when you were speaking, Johann, was about the folks that do beg on the side of our streets. And I drive through downtown every day, sometimes twice a day. And it's so easy to. It would be easy to pull up to a light and just look the other way and just pretend know, doing something with your stereo, but actually take the time, even if you're not going to give them anything, just to look at them, acknowledge them and smile. And even better is to actually roll down your window and say, how's it going, what's your name? And to humanize them again.

Wendi Park [00:19:20]:

And the whole meaning of peace, when we look at Shalom, is about wholeness and bringing restoration to being. And how can we bring wholeness into a situation if we can't acknowledge, if we're pushing under the rug, what is? And we're dehumanizing the person in front of us or the people group that we feel uncomfortable with, or the situation, the social group that we feel uncomfortable with, we are called to be agents of peace in those places. How much more of a community development statement is that for the Church to be part of restoration and be part of that? It's an active presence. It's more than a Hallmark feeling.

Johan Heinrichs [00:20:01]:

It's coming back to that cautions verse again. It really is about what the kingdom is going to look like. His kingdom come, as will be done in Matthew Six, but let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts. It's a kingdom, it's a rulership, it's how he's going to establish his kingdom and how he intends to move things towards when his kingdom does come. So living in peace is that picture we have of heaven on earth, but it's not hiding and putting our heads in the sand saying, oh, we're just going to live that way, even though that's not the way it is, because.

Wendi Park [00:20:35]:

We had good intentions, right? How often do we hear that? And that's why we're doing what we're doing with the care portal. We want opportunities not to just talk about our position on peace, but how do we help bring people into restorative relationships? How do we connect people with people in need, like people from the Church, with people in the community? And how do we restore mutually restorative? Because the Church needs peace. Oh my goodness. Talk to any pastor. They want peace within their congregation. Families want peace. They want peace around that gathering table. The society wants peace.

Wendi Park [00:21:13]:

We want to live in harmony with each other. We all come with that yearning for something greater that is not right now. But if we are going to put things under the rug as if they do not exist, we are actually doing a disservice to us all. The other counterfeit piece that I'd like to bring up is the keep things in the closet. Just don't talk about it. I guess it's similar to putting things under the rug. I would say pushing things under the rug is more. I'm meaning more of a current reality.

Wendi Park [00:21:41]:

Let's just like not deal with it. But keep things in the closet is to suppress or deny what has happened or that inauthenticity, that things that we do not want to be seen for who we are. Because if we're not our perfect self, if we don't have that image that people will like, we don't want to expose it, rather than bringing our authentic self and some of our things we're not proud of because we don't want to look bad or we want to avoid that discomforting feeling. I know there's been times when I've sat around government tables and they were awkward moments for me and everybody was awkward in the room. We weren't used to working together with church and government and indigenous organizations and leaders. And there's this ill willed feeling towards the church. And to sit there and to hear some of those things and create space where they could tell me how it is that they feel towards the church. And some of their experiences that they've had within the church, in the community was not fun to hear.

Wendi Park [00:22:45]:

But I had to listen and acknowledge their experience, whether that was the whole story or not. But that is how they experienced the church. And to sit there and to say, I'm sorry. Yeah, there are skeletons in the church closet and that's not okay, but show us what it is that you're needing in society. How can we show up in a positive way? What are the things that are hurting you now that possibly we could work together, but so often we'd rather keep those in the closet or get defensive over those things. Well, yeah, if they only understood, but they did this and we get into this finger war and that just doesn't bring peace. But if the church could be in that place where they're opening those closets and saying, Holy Spirit, would you cleanse us? And yes, we haven't been perfect and we are sorry and own up for the things that we need to own up for. That is radical peacemaking.

Wendi Park [00:23:42]:

And people aren't always prepared for it. If you want shock value, open the closet.

Kathy Boschmann [00:23:47]:

I think too, it has to do with one acknowledging and changing ways and then coming into those spaces. It's not good enough just to say I'm sorry, but to actually make peace move into those spaces where there has been awkwardness or denial that it's even been a problem, and then to actually say yes. And we're going to be present here in these spaces that we weren't willing.

Wendi Park [00:24:15]:

To be before to show up.

Kathy Boschmann [00:24:18]:


Wendi Park [00:24:19]:

And the other thing about counterfeit piece that we should highlight here is preoccupied pandering, I call it. It's about kind of selling our soul to appease other people around us. And that's disingenuous as well. To avoid voicing perspectives or agreeing at the expense of our own truth seeking. And to just come as whole people that we are not avoidant of conflict, but that we come with peace and not necessarily bowing down to whatever people want of us. Sometimes that would be easier too. It's a way of conflict avoidance. Just saying, oh yeah, whatever you say, I'll jump when you say jump.

Wendi Park [00:25:01]:

That's not seeking peace or the welfare of the city or the welfare of our nation or the welfare of the oppressed by simply pandering to what people are wanting. Because when we pander to whatever people are expecting of us, it becomes a win lose situation. And when we bring Shalom into places, it's not like everything is rosy and good. Sometimes things don't end the way we want it to. But pursuing peace is a benefit to all. It's equitable. It's something that benefits everybody. It's not a win lose situation in my opinion.

Johan Heinrichs [00:25:38]:

Well, because pandering doesn't stop that tension that you feel, right? That just increases tension.

Wendi Park [00:25:44]:

So let's discuss together what pursuing peace looks like practically. What has it looked like for you? What are some key principles that guide you in pursuing peace?

Kathy Boschmann [00:25:58]:

I think being bold is one thing and not allowing ourselves to hide or to pander, to shut things away. Being courageous to speak up when there is something that needs to be dealt with so that peace can come into a situation, whether it's in a relationship in the home or in the community or even things that are in the Church that aren't quite right, that need to be addressed. Oh, I shaken my boots, but boldness and I think courage and obviously at the leading of the Holy Spirit to speak up in those places.

Wendi Park [00:26:37]:

I think that is so know it brings me back to when I was training for peace mediation work in the Middle East. One of the key things that they were training us is to be the least anxious presence in a situation and actually to lead the conversation. Don't wait till whichever person that is in high conflict or the one with the gun, don't wait for them to start the conversation. Actually go there, extend a hand or whatever is appropriate, and say, hi, is there something I can do? Set a peaceful tone to the conversation. Because psychologically, even they are more inclined to mirror that tone. You can actually set the tone in how you boldly be the first person, the first anxious person. It's not the first person to speak over the crowd and to yell above the biggest voice that actually adds to the conflict. But if you can be the least anxious presence and go towards that person.

Wendi Park [00:27:35]:

I've seen snipers come down and peace conversations be had. Because we just entered into a peaceful conversation, we could actually set the tone. It was more powerful than guns. It was amazing.

Johan Heinrichs [00:27:47]:

Peace is getting your hands dirty along with those that are in that anxious or angry state. When I worked in the school system, I took a course called gentle teaching. So I'm an official gentle teacher.

Wendi Park [00:27:59]:

I need a few lessons.

Johan Heinrichs [00:28:01]:


Wendi Park [00:28:03]:

Shoot. You're supposed to agree with that.

Johan Heinrichs [00:28:05]:

But children in that anxious state, where there's no peace on the inside, you're not supposed to come in opposing them. Or rather, like, if they're hiding under the table, shaking or screaming under the table, you're supposed to get down on your knees and go under the table with them and just sit with them. Not necessarily talking with them, but just sitting with them, saying, hey, I know you're struggling, but I'm just going to be this peaceful presence beside you, because that's what they need at that moment. They don't necessarily need advice. They just need someone to care. They need someone to get dirty in the spot that they're at, to have that empathy.

Wendi Park [00:28:42]:

Yeah, that is beautiful. I also think of looking at which battle is mine to fight in those situations or in any situation. Is it a battle to help bring calm and tranquility? Because we know from even previous episodes, we've talked about the upstairs brain, the downstairs brain, when we're operating out of that amygdala, that fight, flight, freeze, fawn, frump mode. We cannot actually reason, we cannot actually pursue peace when we're all heightened. So, 01:00 a.m.. I, that calm person. Am I using the prefrontal cortex so I can reason, I can love, I can create, I can relate? So that I can bring that into the presence? Is that my battle to fight. Probably my biggest battle is my own.

Wendi Park [00:29:28]:

What presence am I bringing into the situation? And what battle is it for mine to fight? Is it to be right or to give a whole bunch of cognitive download and say, this is wrong and this is right? When everybody's, like, flapping their amygdalas? That is probably not our battle to fight. When we are in reason, when we are in our prefrontal cortex, all of us, and we can talk, and it becomes a creative dialogue, and it's not a threat. But what is my battle to fight when that child is under the table or that leader is with angst? We all have different versions of child under the table. It could be a leader. It could be a person in our family that is hard to get along with. But how do we level in with that person?

Johan Heinrichs [00:30:13]:

So, when we light that advent candle of peace and we pray for the peace of the world, I think we need to add the part where we just ask for peace for us, that we would be peace, that we would have peace on the inside, and we would bring peace to situations and those that we encounter, that the peace of Christ would rule in our hearts, and in all those that we encounter, that they might encounter that peace, that man of peace, the Prince of peace. So you're right. It really does start with us. We can't change how others feel, but we can bring our peace to the table.

Wendi Park [00:30:49]:

Good. Play on words. And one of the things that I like to encourage people with, even though realistically, we all come from so many worldviews, so many positions, so many ideologies and religions and perspectives, creating peace is staying at the table. It's not going away because other people don't believe what I believe or don't think like I think. But can we stay at the table, that metaphorical table I'm talking about? Of course. But can we stay in dialogue? Can we use that prefrontal cortex? Can we reason with people, but not in an argumentative way to win, to make people more like in our image? It's never our image anyway, right. That we're talking about. But can we stay at the table in conversation? Can we just be curious? Because around that table, around all that diversity, we have to believe that people are made in the image of God and that people have purpose and drive and all the good that they have, because they do have good.

Wendi Park [00:31:52]:

Even your biggest enemy has something good because God created them. Can we pursue peace together, even in midst our differences? Stay at the table.

Johan Heinrichs [00:32:02]:

Can we break bread with Judas at the table?

Kathy Boschmann [00:32:05]:

Even he had a purpose. Judas had a calling, and he played a role. I love that. Johan can we break bread with Judas? Even? Can we embrace those who we would think are unembraceable, the ones we know.

Johan Heinrichs [00:32:20]:

Are going to betray us? Let's go to Careimpact, CA.

Wendi Park [00:32:24]:


Johan Heinrichs [00:32:24]:

Find out how thank you for joining another conversation on journey with care. We're here to inspire curious Canadians on their path of faith and living life with purpose in community. Journey with Care is an initiative of Care Impact, a Canadian charity dedicated to connecting and equipping the whole church to journey well in community. Visit our website at Journeywithcare, CA to connect with care Impact. Find the latest updates on our weekly episodes, details about our upcoming events, meetups, and information about our incredible guests. You can also leave us a voice message, share your thoughts, and connect with like minded individuals who are on their own journeys of faith and purpose. Thank you for sharing this podcast with your friends. Together we can explore ways to journey in a good way.

Johan Heinrichs [00:33:13]:

And always remember to stay curious.


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