Second Thoughts | Courage to Connect: Embracing Vulnerability
The Cost of Indifference Series: Episode 10
Listen to the previous episode with Emily: https://journey-with-care.captivate.fm/episode/s04-good-friday/
Description
What sparks your curiosity to care for others? In this engaging conversation on "Journey With Care," hosts Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs delve into the role of curiosity as a catalyst for community care. Through heartfelt narratives and their dialogue with Emily, they uncover how curiosity can foster genuine connections and inspire transformative acts of service. By analyzing personal experiences and addressing barriers like fear, they challenge listeners to step out of comfort zones and embrace a life of meaningful engagement with their community. This discussion not only emphasizes the impact of living curiously and intentionally but also encourages embracing every opportunity to grow and serve others with purpose.
Time Stamps
[06:13] Curiosity Sparks Connection in Outreach
[07:24] "What Kills Our Curiosity?"
[12:53] "Faith and Personal Growth Encounters"
[15:30] "Church Outreach: Clubbing with a Twist"
[20:31] "Invitation to Action in Solidarity"
[23:11] Reflect, Notice, Trust God
[24:27] Care Lingo: Radical Hospitality
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Wendi Park [00:00:02]:
That curiosity to lean in and to do something different, it it's exactly what you were saying, Johan. I think it's all that sense of control, and there is a thing that we need to pay attention to on our dashboard, that lordship. We might love God in concepts, but are we letting him to be the Lord of our life? Are we releasing that control, not my will, but yours? Even Jesus prayed that prayer.
Johan Heinrichs [00:01:12]:
This is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact, where curious Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life stories and honest conversations. Alright. We are in another second thoughts episode. We are coming off our episode with Emily, and I'm not even gonna try to pronounce her last name with you. Dimitrio. Dimitrio. Although, to be fair, she said, I'm not even sure if that's how it's supposed to be pronounced. So she didn't know how to pronounce her own name.
Johan Heinrichs [00:01:57]:
So well, she did have a lot of good insights even if she didn't have insight into her own name.
Wendi Park [00:02:01]:
Yeah. Well, would you know how to say your authentic family name in the origin language, I wonder?
Johan Heinrichs [00:02:09]:
Well, I I looked up my last name a little bit, and
Wendi Park [00:02:12]:
Try me.
Johan Heinrichs [00:02:13]:
I've turned plural. I've come to find out. It's supposed to be Heinrich.
Wendi Park [00:02:17]:
It's supposed to be Heinrich.
Johan Heinrichs [00:02:20]:
I've had lots of weird people pronounce it Heinrichs. That one drives me crazy because I I don't smell. In fact, my wife says I never smell. So that doesn't that doesn't really match my my name. But, you know, throughout time in history, people say, I'm gonna go to the Heinrich house. It didn't sound as good, so let's say Heinrichs because it's plural. And I think that's probably where it came from.
Wendi Park [00:02:43]:
Well, my origin name for park, because I'm married to a park, my married name is Puck. But people can't say Puck. And so there's a silent r in there, so everybody says park.
Johan Heinrichs [00:02:54]:
So you should have named one of your kids hockey, hockey puck.
Wendi Park [00:02:59]:
I was gonna call him a cineboyne or Saint Vettel puck.
Johan Heinrichs [00:03:03]:
Anyway, we are getting off topic.
Wendi Park [00:03:05]:
We digress.
Johan Heinrichs [00:03:06]:
So we are talking about our episode, the courage to stay, how to be present in the midst of suffering. Emily shared some stories and insights that she had, some people that she met. So what has sat with you since having that conversation with Emily, Wendy?
Wendi Park [00:03:21]:
Yeah. I really enjoyed having that conversation with Emily. And as you get to know Emily like I've been able to do over these last couple years, there's such genuine heart behind what she's saying. She's not coming into this saying that look at me. I'm I'm caring for the community. She genuinely carries that calling, that heart, that inclination, almost that magnetic force into the community. She just can't help herself. And so that is inspiring to see people like that.
Wendi Park [00:03:50]:
It it makes me think, Johan, why is it that some people are gravitationally just that Jesus' heart towards community and to other people that people might otherwise marginalize or walk away from in fear, and what makes other people hesitate, almost the opposite magnetic reaction to caring for community? What makes people inclined to it, and what makes people repel?
Johan Heinrichs [00:04:16]:
Well, that was one of the questions I had when Emily was speaking because she said, you have to want to care. And my question was, okay. How do you get to want to care? How do you get to that point? How do you cross that chasm from being indifferent, which this whole series is about? We're we're in the cost of indifference series. How do you get from being indifferent to wanting to care, to not wanting to be indifferent?
Wendi Park [00:04:42]:
Well, I think it could be different for different people, different personalities, introverts, extroverts. I can only speak from my own experience and from what I've seen is that when I have been radically cared for by others and I've allowed other people to care for me, it changes my outlook on others as well. It takes out that hesitation, but I have to be willing to be receiving care. And for myself, it was going overseas, living in Central And South America, doing my school, and I was doing some church planting community development stuff. But I also I was there to support, but I was there to learn and to I needed help from my community. I needed my village. And so when I come back now, for me, that was a shift for me. I was more, like, otherwise not outward looking.
Wendi Park [00:05:30]:
But now when I see newcomers here in Canada and students, and I was that foreign student in another land, I was that person speaking a different language and fumbling around. And there's a different compassion that I can't make up because you can identify. And and granted, all our stories are different. I can't identify with people going through homelessness or mental health, but I have been vulnerable myself, and I have needed help. And so I feel, like, for me, that has been a shift that continues to challenge me that I need to continue to receive help as much as be there for others, to be human with others for me. I what has helped you be more present with others?
Johan Heinrichs [00:06:13]:
Well, I almost wanna take it back to episode three we had with Troy where we really talked about that curiosity factor. Now I shared this in the introduction of Emily's episode, but just to bring it back, this was a long time ago when I was in a previous church. They have an inner city prayer room where where we do worship and feed the poor and the homeless that would come in as well. So I was going in there to lead worship, you know, to do my my thing and serve that way. But there is still a disconnect with those that were in the room. Mhmm. So after going there for a long enough time, you I think the curiosity got to me is, like, you know what? This is actually boring just to serve in this way and not actually connect with anyone. So I began sitting at the tables with them and asking what their stories are because I was getting bored.
Johan Heinrichs [00:07:03]:
And I think that curiosity if you're curious enough, everybody has a story, and they have a story to tell. And quite often, it's interesting, and it'll blow you away if you if you actually dig deep. So, again, going back to episode three, it's that curiosity, I think. I don't know. Sometimes, I think we need to allow ourselves to get bored so that we can get curious again.
Wendi Park [00:07:24]:
And we have to ask ourselves, if this is an internal thing that each one of us has to do some reflection or maybe in a a small group of of people we trust, is what is killing my curiosity? What is stopping me from being curious? So if I'm not curious, that should be an alarm on our dashboard. Why am I so curious about other people? Not in a nosy kind of way. We're not talking about that, but that inclination, that magnetic inclination towards other. Because if God has really is who he says he is and has created us who he says we are, created in the image of God for community in relationship with others and created for community, why aren't we curious about others? Why aren't we magnetically leaning in? What is that interference, that barrier that's preventing us from naturally being drawn into, the lives of others that is mutually flourishing. I think if we looked closely, fear would be one of the top things in a lot of people's list, and it might look different for different people. But if we are held back by fear, that is something that we can work on, that God can work on if we let him. Like, perfect love casts out fear. God is love.
Wendi Park [00:08:39]:
So so what is it internally that I need to do some checks on so that I have a natural, not a contrived, oh, I I should do this. I should help the homeless because, that's what a good Christian should do. People can suss you out. Oh my goodness. They they smell the fear. Right? But what can we do to address those curiosity killers?
Johan Heinrichs [00:09:05]:
Yeah. I think it's getting out of our comfort zones again. I don't know about you, but I don't wanna live a boring life that's just sheltered and living in fear and not letting others in because we were amazed for so much more than that. And, like, that's why we're podcasting. We love stories, and we think stories are transformational. When you hear them, you get to understand other perspectives. It makes you think. And I think when we shelter ourselves from that, we're just gonna die inside.
Johan Heinrichs [00:09:36]:
Like, I don't know.
Wendi Park [00:09:38]:
Yeah. Well, I think we know the right answer is that we don't want a boring life, that we look to the person that's living the life of adventure, that is brave, that is taking the stage, that is taking a stand, that is doing the brave thing, and we look at them like, wow. That's so great. I wanna do that. But in actuality, in praxis, we're taking the cheap seats. We don't actually want to. We aspire to do something. It's wishful thinking, but are we taking the steps to do it? And we think, oh, that chasm from here to there to be like Emily, I could never be like her, and good on you.
Wendi Park [00:10:10]:
We we should all be ourselves. But that curiosity to lean in and to do something different, it it's exactly what you were saying, Johan. I think it's all that sense of control, and there is a thing that we need to pay attention to on our dashboard, that lordship. We might love God in concepts, but are we letting him to be the lord of our life? Are we releasing that control, not my will, but yours? Even Jesus prayed that prayer. Can we truly abandon our sense of control and sovereignty of our own life to say, lord, I trust you that you want what's good for my life. You want what's good for that person's life. You are in this, and I'm gonna trust you. And that's when we see growth.
Wendi Park [00:10:54]:
That's when we we become alive. And that's why it's better to give than to receive. That's why when we serve people a a glass of water or visit them in prison, we meet Jesus in those times. So it's not about philanthropy. It's in those moments we experience God. But we often take the cheap seats and sing hallelujah from the cheap seats rather than getting into the the real game, and that's where the adventure begins.
Johan Heinrichs [00:11:23]:
And if we're not growing, we are actually taking steps back. There's no being stagnant in this. You can't just sit still. That's kind of been a motto of of mine. Like, am I growing in any areas? And if I'm not, I'm probably just I'm probably losing ground and gaining ground. Yeah. I think about looking at a a tree that's been cut in half. And as someone that's curious, I I like, I'll look at those rings and some of them are a lot bigger than others and some look darker.
Johan Heinrichs [00:11:50]:
And I'm like, wonder what happened that year.
Wendi Park [00:11:53]:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs [00:11:53]:
It's like, wow, there's a lot of growth in this year and and the next year there's hardly any, but it's still growing. And, eventually, that tree stopped growing and it got cut down. So it's like you you gotta go through those hard years, and there's gonna be good years. But as long as you're taking those steps forward, you're not gonna get cut down.
Wendi Park [00:12:11]:
Yeah. Taking those risks. I think, we need to celebrate risk taking and that not everything has to be a happy ever ending, has to have this salvation story or has to have a we baptize Wayne, type of story. It ended in a tragedy. However, there's there's a peace there that just smells like heaven. Right? Not to glorify tragedy, but god enters into those moments still. And I think also another curiosity killer would be that comparison. Well, that person is doing it like this, or this person is doing that, and we we stagnate ourselves by comparison.
Wendi Park [00:12:53]:
And and each one of us has been uniquely created by god's image. And what is daring for you, Johan, to put yourself out there might look different than it is for me. But I can testify that in my life, it's those times that god has interrupted me with people that I naturally wouldn't sit and have coffee with that haven't, like, dissuaded me from the faith even though they aren't people of faith or have a very different lifestyle than mine. But it's actually challenged my theology. It's challenged my thinking, and I would say it's helping me refine who I am and become more secure in Christ that in those moments I can trust God. I can give an example. Many years ago, I was at Downtown Winnipeg in Osborne Village, and I was sitting at a bus stop just waiting for a bus to to come through. And, there was many buses coming by, and out of one bus came a big crowd of people.
Wendi Park [00:13:52]:
I wasn't paying attention or anything. But then I was approached by one young, gentleman and saying, excuse me. Can I talk to you? And I looked up, and I'm like, okay. Sure. I don't know who you are, but, he introduced himself. He's like, I got off the bus, and I saw a light you were filled with light, and I need to know why. And and so I said, well, why don't we have have coffee? And and he happened to be a white witch. And I'm like, I'm a prayer girl, Mennonite rays, bubble wrapped as it comes.
Wendi Park [00:14:22]:
I didn't know the first thing about white witches, but we had this great encounter. I learned about him. He learned about me. We have this exchange that I believe is god sedential. It's actually helped give me more empathy and more compassion and and more strategic prayer for people were living and worshiping in the old cult in a way that otherwise I would have just said, he's bad. I could stay away from him to let's have a conversation. And it it's helped me. I believe God used that.
Wendi Park [00:14:56]:
I didn't convert him. I didn't convince him about Jesus, but he saw the light of Christ within me. And it wasn't because I was, like, polishing my halo there either. But I needed that to say, you know what? This person is made in the image of God, and there's a a yearning for light. And it's given me more compassion to not be so judgmental, to withhold my judgment that each person is on a journey. Have you had any experiences that you were pushed out of your comfort zone and yet God used that very encounter, that person to minister to you.
Johan Heinrichs [00:15:30]:
I can't think of any examples. Right now, I'm sure, like, I know there probably are, but your story reminds me this is kind of a sidebar, but I heard a guy speaking one time, and he would minister to those marginalized, those in the occult, actually, that the church wouldn't touch. And they'd have, like, these big club gatherings where they're they're clubbing, doing drugs, and all these other things. So he decided, you know what? I'm gonna go right into these neighborhoods, and I'm gonna and I'm gonna do a rave. I'm gonna I'm gonna create a club. And he called it Club Satan. Wow. So so but it it brought all these people in, and right in the middle of of this rave and this club, they actually had a representation, some sort of statue of Satan, and they had clubs where people can literally club Satan in their Oh,
Wendi Park [00:16:24]:
I didn't know where this was going.
Johan Heinrichs [00:16:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I thought it was hilarious. And he preached the gospel, of course, and people were getting saved. So Wow. Just kind of a play on words to get people in the door. Right?
Wendi Park [00:16:38]:
I didn't I didn't do that. But No. But I think the point is proximity matters. Yeah. And people like, we shouldn't beat ourselves up for not, like, naturally being inclined to to be with people that don't look like us, talk like us, think like us. That's a natural inclination. So I think people can rid themselves of that shame. We're just naturally predisposed to do that.
Wendi Park [00:17:02]:
However, proximity does matter. As we we see the human in other people and understand our own humanness that we haven't arrived yet. Right? We have Jesus. He's arrived, but but we're still on this journey. But as we get in human to human and we see the humanity in each other and the dei, the the image bearing properties of each other in each other, it's really hard to hate somebody when we're breaking bread together. It's really hard to, say, like, inflammatory words like what goes on in social media when we're willing to mutually sit down together and spend time together and listen. Listening is such a gift. We it doesn't mean we have to correct them, and we're not gonna get cooties for them letting words out of their mouth that doesn't resonate with me.
Wendi Park [00:17:53]:
That's not who I am. It's a insecurity issue if we feel like we can't be in proximity. We might have to even think of our theology. Do we think God is that weak that when we're in the presence of others that look different than us, think different than us, have different beliefs and values, that our God isn't strong enough to hold us in those spaces? We need to check how big our god really is.
Johan Heinrichs [00:18:18]:
In getting dirty, I think that's again, there's a fear thing there. And I don't know about you, but I I've actually heard some people use the reference in scripture where it says, the poor, you will always have among you. Yeah. They'll use that as an excuse not to actually help the poor, not to get their hands dirty, saying, well, the poor are always gonna be there. So it's like let's let's bring it into context again. This is Jesus. He's getting the perfume poured out on his feet, and his disciples are complaining saying, oh, you could have given money to the poor instead of wasting all that. But Jesus was actually quoting something in Deuteronomy, where it says, the poor you will always have with you in the land.
Johan Heinrichs [00:18:59]:
Therefore, I command you, you shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy, and to the poor in your land. So it's like Yes. And but even in Jesus' context, I think he's actually speaking to the opposite of what people are using that that as an excuse for because it's the generosity piece. It's the pouring out of of your wealth, and it's the action of doing something.
Wendi Park [00:19:21]:
Yeah. We could look at the flip side and say you will always have opportunity to find Jesus. You will always have opportunity to share the love of Jesus and give the hope for glory all around you. It'll never run dry. If we could just flip that. I love the way you're you're looking at it, Johan.
Johan Heinrichs [00:19:38]:
He's advocating for generosity. It's like, no. This one's been generous with me by pouring out the perfume on my feet. And then Jesus goes in in another passage, and he says, when I was sick and in prison, when I when I was hungry, you fed me. So it's like when you're doing these things unto Jesus, when you're pouring out that expensive perfume, when you are feeding the needy, when you are visiting those in prison, you are doing it unto Jesus. You're pouring out that perfume on his feet.
Wendi Park [00:20:04]:
And not like a checklist. Oh, we should do these things so we can that is our passageway to heaven. That is our passageway to be, closer to Jesus. This is just a natural thing. This is who we are. This is the DNA of the church. But the church is so much more than charity and philanthropy and just giving and doing. It's about being in solidarity with other people, walking alongside, side, not above other people to be with them in solidarity.
Wendi Park [00:20:31]:
We are always invited in solidarity with Christ in these places. These are sacred places. And and I think, Johan, different people will be inclined, will see things in different ways, will catch their attention. I I believe that there's something very important here. If somebody's always saying, pastor, we gotta do something about homelessness, Chances are they might be called to that because they they're having eyes to see or their eyes are being opened to that. Or we gotta do something about children and domestic violence. Well, chances are you're being invited, whether that's in a direct response of inviting people to your home or in a professional way or just philanthropy to support those who are professionally supporting these areas. Pay attention to the things that irk us, because those might be the places that invite us, to be present in in a radical way.
Johan Heinrichs [00:21:27]:
Wanna take it a step further. I believe this is actually what the culture of the church is meant to be. Like, we shouldn't even have to go to our pastors and say, I think we need to do something about the poor. Because, like, if you look in Acts, we've talked about this in our Neighbour Up, series, which our small group series, which if our listeners are interested in that, we developed a
Wendi Park [00:21:46]:
I'm so excited about that, Yohan.
Johan Heinrichs [00:21:48]:
Course. We're still developing it. Check it out. Neighbor Up. You can go to cureimpact.ca to get some details or message us. But anyway, we talk about it in Acts where God's grace was so powerfully at work that there were no needy persons among them.
Wendi Park [00:22:02]:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs [00:22:03]:
So, like, they were giving money, and they were putting their houses up for sale. And it was just a cultural church thing where there were no needy among them because this is what the church was meant to be.
Wendi Park [00:22:14]:
Well and and you're pushing on a big button there right now, a flashing button in our nation of individualism, and that will rub us the wrong way when it cut it sounds cute, and it sounds right. It is right. I agree with you, Johan. But what you're pressing there is a button of individual, I have my boundaries. I have my things. If people would only work harder, I've deserved this, or I need to not, like, I have to be careful on my own battery reserve, like, how much energy I have. And some of that is true, and that's why it's so easy to press that button. But you're talking about a whole another button that's a little bit more sacrificial.
Wendi Park [00:22:54]:
It's not the big individualistic button. It's community button. And it's a lot easier said than done, But it sure is beautiful and tastes like heaven when we go there.
Johan Heinrichs [00:23:05]:
I think that's a good place to stop. But before we do, do you have a challenge for the listeners this week?
Wendi Park [00:23:11]:
Well, in addition to what Emily challenged us with is, I would say, do some self reflection. Reflect on the things that irk you in society, the things around you. Reflect on also the things that you notice that you might elbow your partner or your friends or your church, and they might not even have paid attention to it the same way. Pay attention to the things in the news that grab your attention, not just in the things that's satiated, like, that that we just get kind of sensationalized and sucked into. But But but those little pieces, those curiosity, what makes you curious? Pay attention to that and allow god to be the lord over that and say, god, what do I need to know? I can guarantee you he will show you. He's he's longing for you to draw near to him through people around you, and your adventure is just so close, closer than you think. But we have to dare to trust God with those things. So pay attention to those things and submit them to Christ and say, god, what do you want with this? And let me know what he tells you.
Wendi Park [00:24:20]:
I've I've heard some wild things, and god has never let us down.
Johan Heinrichs [00:24:26]:
That's great. Now it's time for Care lingo. Alright, Wendy. Care lingo this week. This is a suitable one for today. Radical hospitality. Now we're gonna flip the tables a little bit here, do something a bit different, and I'm gonna get you to give me a wrong definition.
Wendi Park [00:24:44]:
Okay. Okay. Radical hospitality. First thing that comes to mind is something that's totally rad. They're in their eighties outfits. They're they're they're tie dye, and they've got a big ghetto blaster on their shoulder. And when I ring the doorbell, they come up and they have music blasting and a bandana around their hair. They've got a mullet.
Wendi Park [00:25:03]:
K. I'm basically describing the next current generation. We're going back there. Right? But, they're totally radical. They say, yo, come on in, dude. Come into my house.
Johan Heinrichs [00:25:14]:
So the Ninja Turtles being hospitality Yeah. Oriented sort of thing.
Wendi Park [00:25:18]:
Yeah. The Ninja Turtles.
Johan Heinrichs [00:25:20]:
It's not just, you know, giving away your Netflix account to someone else being extra hospitable.
Wendi Park [00:25:25]:
Well, I do that. Is that is that bad?
Johan Heinrichs [00:25:27]:
Oh, don't say it out loud. They might find you.
Wendi Park [00:25:30]:
Oh, the things we've done in radical hospitality. Things go wild. I give Wi Fi passwords so that kids off the street are who are running from gangs have a safe place. I've done that. True story.
Johan Heinrichs [00:25:40]:
You just gotta put some benches outside your door so they are
Wendi Park [00:25:43]:
placed at Oakgate. That's how we that's how we keep them safe, and they they find home.
Johan Heinrichs [00:25:48]:
Some great examples of radical hospitality from Wendy, because radical hospitality goes beyond politeness. It's it's that open handedness, the open handed way of living that makes people feel like they belong. It's not just about inviting people in. It's about putting benches outside your door and giving Wi Fi. It's creating those spaces where they feel like they're seen and valued. So I'm not sure if you have your windows closed when they're sitting outside, but make sure they're seen and valued, Wendy. That's real hospitality there. Alright.
Johan Heinrichs [00:26:18]:
So there's radical hospitality. Until next time, remember to stay curious because that's what's gonna fight our cynicism. That's what's gonna keep us growing. Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our community, visit journeywithcare.ca, or find Care Impact on Facebook and Instagram, or just check the show notes for these links and all the links related to this episode. Share your thoughts, leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in faith and purpose. Together, let's discover how we can make a meaningful impact.
