Second Thoughts | Crossing Chasms: The Cost and Call of Church Unity
From Programs to Presence | With Erinn Oxford: https://journey-with-care.captivate.fm/episode/s04e15/
Description
What does it look like to let go of sacred spaces when they become sacred cows holding us back from true community?
Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs reflect on their conversation with Erin Oxford, digging into the tension between presence and programming, buildings and relationships, and how our resources can either empower or entrench our ministry efforts. They share honest stories of surrendering physical spaces—whether a church building or a grand ministry centre—to refocus on relational impact and spiritual formation together. From the need for vulnerability in leadership to the surprising blessings found in mutuality with those we serve, this conversation challenges the church to reimagine how we steward what we have and who we are for the good of our neighbours.
Time Stamps
[00:00] "See Beyond Labels"
[04:49] "Embracing Vulnerability in Ministry"
[06:23] "Balancing Family and Ministry"
[10:49] Community Support and Sacrifice
[13:33] "Trusting Intuition Over Buildings"
[18:47] "Fasting from Busyness"
[20:13] "Dream Room: Community Visionary Space"
[23:02] CareLingo: Voluntourism
CareImpact Podcast Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19rkPGbD7C/
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Johan Heinrichs:
Instead of putting our efforts into keeping the sheep, what if we put our efforts into serving the communities and bringing more into the kingdom? This is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact where curious Canadians Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life stories and honest conversations. What if church unity isn't about agreement, but about humility? Maybe the most radical thing we could do is sit at a table with those we don't fully understand. It's Johan here, with my coconspirator, Wendy.
Wendi Park:
Hey. Hey.
Johan Heinrichs:
We are in our second thoughts episode after having a awesome conversation with your good friend. I I don't know if it's a good friend. I mean, it's it's your friend. That would be
Wendi Park:
say he's a good friend. It it's good friends aren't ones that you spend tons of time with, but when you do, you go deep real fast and no conversation starters necessary. So, Dave, you're a good friend.
Johan Heinrichs:
And Dave went really deep right away. Like, we're just trying to do an icebreaker question now at the start of the episodes, like we tend to do. I mean, I think Zach did the same thing hijacking the episode with our icebreaker. He did that with the bumblebee thing. Go back and listen to that one. Dave kinda did the same thing with us. It was like, if trust was, bridge Bridge. What would it be built out of? I think that was the question.
Johan Heinrichs:
Right? And he said trust it would be made out of ice strong yet easily broken. And it depends on how we walk on it. So what were your thoughts when you first heard that? Were you
Wendi Park:
I like that. He went deep real fast. I had never thought of it in that way. I thought maybe he's gonna do popsicle sticks, toothpicks, cement. I don't know. But ice is so the right answer, very Canadian also. But you're right. Ice can be super strong.
Wendi Park:
You can drive trucks on it, on on our lakes in in winter. Right? But it's also super fragile. It can crack, and, we have to be paying attention.
Johan Heinrichs:
And specifically, you talked about a lot of trust between churches in this episode, which I found interesting growing up as a as a pastor's kid, seeing how churches interact with one another in different ways. Mhmm. But before I get into that, I I have a few stories for that. But I couldn't stop thinking about how often we actually avoid the hard work of unity. Like, it really feels that way. We we claim peace, but we avoid reconciliation for the most part. And we say we're for the church, but only the parts that look like us. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Wendi Park:
Yeah. I think it's human behavior, actually. When we wanna avoid the hard talks or the deep talks or the things that actually we may not see eye to eye, it's easy to do busy work. It's easy to do superficial work. It easy to scurry around rather than have the honest conversation. There's elephants in in in the sanctuaries, and yet we'd rather keep busy. It's more rewarding. It feels productive.
Wendi Park:
But he really was getting at something much deeper. And one of the things that stood out for me was that his finding in trust building and reconciliation across denominations, his finding was it wasn't so much the the conflict and the opposition against each other, the active opposition of the fighting. And I know we all know that that is there too, but he was finding the undermining of trust and reconciliation was actually more the apathy, the indifference. Hence, our our, series of the cost of indifference was more the apathy of not wanting to put in the work, of walking alongside, working alongside, working with other people, other denominations that may not see eye to eye. So we keep busy.
Johan Heinrichs:
And I don't necessarily think it's always about not wanting to put in the work. It's it's not even on their mind sometime to to collaborate with other churches and that they would need to talk to other churches because we're so we're so focused on what's in front of us. Right? I mean
Wendi Park:
Well, and and to the point, I think it there is a point to that. Like, it all all things have to be held intention. You can't just be looking for kumbaya experiences and a group hug across denominations as your main goal. But I think what he was getting at is if we don't do that, if unity isn't part of our strategy, it is affecting our main goal, which is to lift up the head of Christ, is to to be a a godly Christian example in our community and to to affect change and good and and caring for the vulnerable, that is the greater good. So we can't just seek that, but it is a means to the end, to what is at stake if we don't.
Johan Heinrichs:
And I think you talked about trust between churches doesn't happen by accident. Right? Mhmm. It requires that time, that risk, and that honesty. I mean, I remember growing up, my dad being a pastor, there wasn't a ton of collaboration between churches. Once a year, they do their pastor swap with the other church in our denomination, or we get together for a conference when the overseer came from Saskatchewan, and then we get together. And that's kinda the extent of where we collaborate with other churches. And of course there's the march for Jesus which happened once a year. Right? Back in the day where all the churches would gather at Portage Of Maine here in Winnipeg and I think we had the biggest march in Canada by the way.
Johan Heinrichs:
Mhmm. But I also remember this term coming up, and I don't know if it was just in the church circles or my dad mentioning it, but there's this thing called sheep stealing. And this was a genuine worry for some pastors. It's, well, I don't wanna collaborate with this other church because my people might go there and actually like it a lot more than they like me. And there's this insecurity with the pastors worried about losing their sheep and their congregation to other churches, and it's I mean, it seems kinda silly. But
Wendi Park:
Well, this is what it brings to mind. I think we gotta give kudos and credit to our younger generation who have been teaching me all the art about Minecraft. Any Minecrafters out there that do it in for the sake of connecting with your kids? And right now, the movie is out with the Minecraft. You know what? If kids can learn I I literally tend sheep for my kids and chop down trees. I I'm just the the gatherer and the farmer, and they do the stuff. They make me things. But if we can work together, there's really no point in in Minecraft. You make up your plot line.
Wendi Park:
But if we can work together in creating pens that thinking collaboratively rather than this is mine, this is yours, I'm not stealing from my kid's pen, I'm I'm actually helping spawn new sheep. Why can't we think collectively like that? Why do we think so individualistic in our pursuit of the kingdom of God? This isn't cheap stealing. This isn't trying to outdo the other. We are the body of Christ. We don't get to write that script. We don't get to write, define who the church is. That is defined for us. We just have to learn how to play within that.
Johan Heinrichs:
And this is his bride. We don't have any ownership over his bride, and I'd be very hesitant to to claim that over over the lord's bride because he's jealous. Right? So he's gonna bring his people and lead them wherever he leads them. But that was mostly about church unity being ecumenical, getting along with other churches, doing things and putting in the work. But he also talked a little bit about reconciliation and how reconciliation is not the same thing as unity, actually.
Wendi Park:
Sorry. My dog is scratching here.
Johan Heinrichs:
And Cream has entered the conversation. Cream.
Wendi Park:
He's trying to fluff up his cushion. He is
Johan Heinrichs:
We all need fluffy cushions, Wendy. If we would just fluff up our neighbors' cushions, I think there would be a lot more unity within the church.
Wendi Park:
Oh goodness. K. What was the question?
Johan Heinrichs:
We're talking about how reconciliation was not the same thing as unity. It's a process towards God God's intended community, which is kinda one one of the quotes that Dave talked about.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. It it's not like we can arrive. It's something we do. We're always reconciling ourselves to God, with each other, with this world. There's always a process of it's a posture of doing. It's an act of doing where unity, we can have elements of it, but we're always gonna be striving towards unity by reconciliation. Yeah. And and one thing that I thought of, regarding reconciliation, what he was talking about is that it's costly.
Wendi Park:
It it costs time. And and that is something that's probably our greatest commodity that we we hold dearly in our society. And it costs us trust. That means I have to trust somebody that might look different than me, think different than me. I have to have some element of shared trust, and it sometimes costs people pride. Well, they denominational pride or individualistic pride. Pride can cloak itself in a lot of humble ways and in a lot of spiritual jargon, But reconciliation is costly. But it is the only way to move forward from that polite coexistence.
Wendi Park:
I'm fine. You're fine. Let's just have the appearances of one big happy family to actually kingdom collaboration. It gets gritty and it gets really honest. And and it's really looking at how do we love in our differences, how do we love honestly but truthfully and not putting things under the rug.
Johan Heinrichs:
And one thing that he talked about that stuck out to me is that, when you don't have that reconciliation, when you don't have that unity within the body, our worship and our witness are both diminished, actually, when we settle for that siloed faith and those siloed faith communities. And then he also talked about how our congregations are connected to each other whether we like it or not. Mhmm. And you kinda mentioned it too. It's like this is the church of Winnipeg. This is not this church and this church. Like, whatever area you're in, this is the church of your area. Mhmm.
Johan Heinrichs:
That's kinda how it worked in the New Testament with Paul writing to the church of Ephesus. They're supposed to care for the whole community Yeah. And not be in that siloed faith. Right? And it really does hurt our witness when we're siloed when when we're in our own little bubbles.
Wendi Park:
Well, absolutely. And if we don't trust each other, why would the world trust our message? Honestly. Yeah. So working across denominational lines isn't extra credit. It's our credibility of the gospel. So there's a lot at stake. We can't afford to have our silos. Maybe it works for our program, but how's it working for us? I would say, sitting at government tables, at other secular tables, other across the board or even at denominational tables, it's not working.
Wendi Park:
And what's at cost is not only our message, which is, like, hello. This is a big deal here. Our our credibility is at stake and our good news is at stake based on our actions. Ultimately, my art continues to side with the the marginalized, the vulnerable. They're not getting the service that God intended the church to be in those spaces of serving and caring with and journeying with that solidarity, that kinship. They're not getting that either. We're not getting that either from the pews because we also represent hard, hurt and and trauma and within our congregations, and we're not able to care for each other.
Johan Heinrichs:
And you also talked about how the spirit works and moves when there's more than one congregation together in one place. In fact, I think he said, where there's more than one congregation in place, the spirit is always working to connect the church more deeply. And that kinda sat with me too just Mhmm. We've all heard the verse where two or more are gathered. He's there in the midst. But what if there's two or more communities gathered? Like, how much more is he there in the midst? And wanting to connect with us deeply I mean, there's the John seventeen piece, I think he also mentioned, where he wants us to be one just as he and the father are one. He wants us deeply connected in that way. And I think we're missing out on something when we're not getting that great gathering of believers of of communities together.
Johan Heinrichs:
So Wendy, all this is really good philosophically, like, let's get churches together. Let's get deeply connected. Let's be the church of our area. Reconciliation is good. Unity is good. But how do you practically live that out? How like, what are some practical ways that we can actually do that as a church in practice?
Wendi Park:
Yeah. That is something a question that I was sitting with even listening to him yesterday as I was reading through his dissertation. How do we practically land the plane? And I I really appreciated what he challenged us and our listeners to is to think of that person that we could have coffee with, pray for the people that we otherwise wouldn't worship with. I think that is a start because if we're we're going into this thing, how do I come up with a solution to unity? Because reality is we have denominations deeply, deeply passionate about their doctrines. And it's not to say don't have convictions and don't have theological beliefs. We all need to wrestle out our faith, and and we may end up with different landing points that we're most passionate of because of our own lived experience, our faith experience. And what we have now is a lot of denominations on separate islands, and the islands don't meet again. There's there's chasms.
Wendi Park:
There's lots of, oceans between them that feels irreconcilable. But what if we got into a dinghy and went across to another island and not coming up with a solution? I'm here to unify us to a posture of humility that says, I wanna spend time with you because you are made in the image of God. You are part of the body of Christ. I validate that in you even if I don't understand you. And can that unity, can the process of reconciliation be cocreated? Because I think there's an element of pride when we think we have to do it now. We have to, like, make the appearances of all unity, and we're gonna do no. And sometimes we we it things are irreconcilable. Can we live in that tension and still love each other anyway? Can we still honor each other as the body of Christ? And so I think, practically, we need to get into our canoes.
Wendi Park:
Maybe canoe is a better, more Canadian term. We need to get into our canoes and and cross those chasms, go into each other's islands, and have coffee together because coffee unifies. Right, Johan? Good coffee, I should say. Don't don't give them the the church coffee if a canoe shows up. But can we cocreate this? And let's not look for a capitalistic mentality about here's a one, two, three. Here's the formula. Just read this book, do this, and and then we'll arrive. Let's get gritty.
Wendi Park:
Let's roll up our sleeves. Let's have honest conversations. But in all of that, let's be gracious hosts. Let's be humble learners, and let's just simply love each other through that because unity is not an option.
Johan Heinrichs:
And instead of putting our efforts into keeping the sheep, what if we put our efforts into serving the communities and bringing more into the kingdom and and doing it that way. And I know, like, we're Care Impact, so one of the ways we do that is through Care Portal. Like, that's a great unifying tool that we can use because we're not attaching church names to that.
Wendi Park:
This is the church
Johan Heinrichs:
this is the church just serving the community because they need it, because there's a need out there. The need goes out on an app, and someone from a church goes and fulfills that need. Like, what a great way to serve the community and be unified as the church of of Winnipeg or Calgary or wherever wherever you're working.
Wendi Park:
Well, literally, I see reconciliation happening on my newsfeed. On my dashboard, when I see care portal and those needs going out, social workers putting in needs that are immediate, they're real, they're they're timely, churches are interacting. And the interaction between these churches, And their eyes aren't on their doctrinal statements. Not that doctrine is is bad, but if we just stay in our heads, we're gonna get migraines, guys. But they're literally reconciling as they're saying, I'll bring the dresser. I've got a truck. This is in my neighborhood. We can be neighbors.
Wendi Park:
And and it's just beautiful. It's like these neurons, our body of the body of Christ, that this is neurology, we're seeing new connections happen. And now suddenly, the left hand is moving. And the the thumb toe of the the right foot is wiggling because now they're saying, oh, we can work together. And together, we can walk. Together we can carry couches, together we can move. We are literally seeing it manifested in youth getting their apartments outfitted that are aging out of care, that family's being reunified. I get a little excited about this because reconciliation isn't just conceptual.
Wendi Park:
It's not just doctrinal statements that have won winning or getting to the lowest common denominator. It's getting them beyond ourselves saying, who are we here to serve? How are we gonna represent unity? And I'm telling you, social services sees that when things are working together. They also get skeptical when we don't. So put that out there.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And when you approach social services about Care Portal, like, they are skeptical. It took a long time for you to build that relationship because they see
Wendi Park:
Didn't just happen.
Johan Heinrichs:
They they don't see church denominations. They see the church of your area and say, wow. These guys don't care. We're looking at our little bubbles, and they're not looking at little bubbles. So what if we all work together and transform the way people think of the Church of Winnipeg or the Church of Calgary? Like, that would be transformational, I believe.
Wendi Park:
Absolutely.
Johan Heinrichs:
Now we're gonna land the plane. That was a great conversation. Lots of takeaways in that one. Mhmm. But this is our actual last episode of the Cost of Indifference series, our longest series ever, actually. But it's been really good. So many different angles that we're hitting. I I mean, I'm feeling the cost of indifference, so I don't wanna be indifferent.
Johan Heinrichs:
Hopefully, the listeners feel the same way. What are your thoughts on just finishing this series here?
Wendi Park:
Well, I've really appreciated each guest has come with such different stories and experiences and insight, and I feel the cost of indifference is prophetic, is something that our Canadian audience that we as the church need to hear, we need to wrestle it with. The series is over, but the conversations have just begun. And I wanna encourage you, if you've been blessed by any of them, I want you to be sharing and having those conversations. Don't leave it to us. We love doing this. We'd love to have conversations with you on here as well. But the work is of the body of Christ. Have those conversations.
Wendi Park:
Lean into those stories. The things that you agree on, the things that you're wrestling with, in that honest conversation, there is reconciliation, and we can move forward in a good way, but it ain't happening on its own. So be part of the change we wanna see here in Canada. Now more than ever, we need to rise up with care and compassion. We cannot afford to be indifferent.
Johan Heinrichs:
I wanna get the t shirt, I choose to not be indifferent. Mhmm. And let's just run with that. And there's many practical ways on how you can live that out in your everyday life throughout the series. Each of our guests gave a call to action at the end of ways that you can do that. So, listen to them again, and let's put this in practice. But now it's time for Care lingo. Alright, Wendy.
Johan Heinrichs:
Care lingo. This is our last one for this season. People have liked it, I think, so I think we gotta keep it going, on our next series. But we need more terms.
Wendi Park:
Oh, I've got more. But, but people might not like mine because, apparently, they're uniquely mine.
Johan Heinrichs:
This one is attachment styles. Oh, we just finished a trauma we just finished a trauma care training or online training, national training. I hear it was one of our best ones yet. That's the feedback.
Wendi Park:
Well, I had one person come on and say, you know what? This course has literally changed my life, and he was not just giving us platitudes. It is changing the direction of how he parents, how he cares in his community. He says, why isn't everybody taking this? So yeah. And we talk about attachment styles. It's it has a lot to do with us and not just the the ones we care for.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. So if you want a deep understanding of this term, even before we give a small definition, take a trauma care course. We got we got this happening.
Wendi Park:
And, honestly, not to, take us away from CareLingo, but we are having camps. We're having churches and denominations, contract us to bring we have trainers across Canada, and so they are actually setting up some training happening this summer, this fall, into the next year. We are actively taking bookings, and our trainers are going into places in person or online. This last one we did online, and we had people from across Canada. But, yeah, churches and organizations and camps, they're they're catching on saying, hey. Maybe we need to go deeper, and this is putting a real practical way. And let's get back to attachment styles because this is something we cover.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And if people wanna inquire about that, they can go to careimpact.ca, ask us about trauma care training. And people got excited about detachment styles on our Care Impact podcast group. A lot of people chiming in, some giving some real good definitions, some giving some, you know, those made up ones that we like to do. We got Doralyn talking about Baby Bjorns and wraps. We got Kathy talking about barnacles on boats. I love that because I'm no. I love boats.
Johan Heinrichs:
My grandpa was a my grandpa was a
Wendi Park:
You're a part pirate. Let's just put it out there.
Johan Heinrichs:
I do have pirate family. You can ask me about that. I'll do a whole podcast on what it means to be, what it means to have the blood of a pirate flowing through you and being a Christian at the same time. Yeah. We got Colleen jumping in, talking about love languages. Kathy. We got Kathy Bullock, a different Kathy. Zippers and Velcro buttons.
Johan Heinrichs:
That's Oh, great answer.
Wendi Park:
I got it.
Johan Heinrichs:
I like that. Brandalyn, she's giving us some real good definitions.
Wendi Park:
Well, she's TBRI trained too.
Johan Heinrichs:
So There we go. Trauma care trained. So she had a good definition there too. And if you wanna see what those are in more detail, join our podcast group on Facebook, Care Impact Podcast Group. The link is in the show notes. But if I was hearing the term for the first time now, I took TBR training as well, trauma care trained, but I wasn't always trauma care trained before Cure Impact. But when I first heard the term attachment styles, I don't know what that would have meant. Me being, you know, a husband.
Johan Heinrichs:
And love languages coming back to that, you know, touch is one of my love languages. So various ways a husband will show affection to his wife often, and it often looks like attachment. I'm gonna keep this rated G as best I could.
Wendi Park:
I was gonna say, I
Johan Heinrichs:
don't know. Like,
Wendi Park:
Corey, pipe in here.
Johan Heinrichs:
But this could be as simple as holding hands. That's an attachment style style of attachment. Let's say my wife's doing the dishes. I do the dishes too, by the way. Uh-huh. But like a nice hug from behind saying thank you dear for doing the dishes. Perhaps it's going maybe my wife is going on on a longer outing and the kids are younger. I might be holding on to her leg in desperation saying, don't leave.
Johan Heinrichs:
That's an attachment style. For some of us that like physical touch, it might be a I I gotta be careful with this. Hold on. Where are you going? And there's that typical, you know, that butt attachment. Some might say a butt grab, but sometimes we can't help it because, you know, our wives are so gorgeous. Shout out to my wife, Cory. Again, like, I can't help myself sometimes. It's just there and she's there and she's beautiful.
Johan Heinrichs:
So attachment styles, as a husband.
Wendi Park:
Well, if if I if I leaned into my psychotherapist husband side of it and I wanted to have fun with this, I would say you have a very preoccupied attachment style with your wife. Not just this of it. That's good. I you have a lovely marriage. How many years are you married?
Johan Heinrichs:
Twenty two
Wendi Park:
years. Oh my goodness. You were just babies when you got married.
Johan Heinrichs:
Almost twenty three. Actually, by the time this episode comes out, it'll be twenty three years. So yeah.
Wendi Park:
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. We're 20. So and we're way older than you too.
Johan Heinrichs:
So Yeah. And I mean, another attachment style because I like to do two. That was a long one. But, you know, I'm I was one of those kids who like to rearrange the pins on a cork board to make, you know, like a picture or the magnets on a fridge just to distract you. That could be an attachment style too. But Yeah. Yeah. What is an attachment style? You know, we're talking about trauma care training.
Wendi Park:
Sheesh. We we've got some more orientation training to do on attachment with you because, poor Corey. I'm just joking. So attachment style is something we refer to a lot in trauma care training, referring to how we have been raised in in our attachment style with our primary caregiver, often our mostly our parents. And it reflects how we attach with others, those that we care for. And we've taken it I take it a step further in our community attachment styles. And so there's four primary attachment styles that will be commonly referred to, and there's there's a few nuances on on the wording. But for the sake of brevity here, I'll say there's, like, secure attachment is what we all long for.
Wendi Park:
We wanna be securely attached to God. We wanna be securely attached to our parental caregiver. We wanna be securely attached with our children or those that we give care to. That allows us to say, I know who I am, and and I can go deeper with others. It's not a sense of perfection, but it's a sense of vulnerability and being secure of, like, not having to pretend, taking that mask off. And that is something we all desire. It's all something we have to work at. It's not something we are born into that we are all perfecting.
Wendi Park:
Some some have perfect secure attachment, others don't. It's something we all work and need to strive for. But the three others that are more dysfunctional, one would be a preoccupied attachment. So it's like, I need you to like me. If I do this, will you like me now? It it comes out even in our relationship with God. God, if I do this devotion, will I earn your attachment? Will I be secure in you? If I do good works to others, am I good enough as a Christian? And that is an insecure if I have the right coffee bar and have the right paint and do the right worship at at church, will I be liked by the people around me? That is an insecure preoccupied attachment. Then we have dismissive on the other side of it, where we'd rather avoid those big feelings. Just stuff it in.
Wendi Park:
Just say, you know what? God said it, and that's that. And we we avoid elephants in the room. We don't want any nuances. We want things black and white, secure. We kinda suppress hard things and just kinda steamroll right past it, which obviously is not a healthy way of connecting with God, with others, in our community. And then the other part is the disorganized attachment. It's like, I like to be close with others, but also not. So we kinda have this pendulum yo yo experience with God and also with other people in our lives that we care for and are cared by.
Wendi Park:
We just aren't secure, and so we're always waffling. And that's not a trustworthy relationship. So there you go. Attachment styles, it it shows up in everything we do as humans who are created to relate with others.
Johan Heinrichs:
One of our longer definitions, and you didn't use the word but once. Anyway Really? Yeah.
Wendi Park:
Because it's not in there.
Johan Heinrichs:
It is not in there. But, hey, if if people wanna chime in, if there's words that you want us to do on this segment, go on our Care Impact Facebook group, and we would love to have you there, have that conversation. And, yeah, we got summer speedos coming up soon.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs:
I don't know if we'll call it summer Speedos. We'll see. People had fun with that last time, but, some fun
Wendi Park:
I think we should. I don't wanna I don't wanna do summer bikinis, so Right. Speedos keeps it a little bit more carry impact rated.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. Some fun stuff on the horizon for Care Impact. Those are shorter episodes that we like to do throughout the summer just to keep you engaged and a little bit of fun.
Wendi Park:
There's so many good stories. I'm bursting to tell these good stories of community in action. This isn't just about what Canada does wrong. There is some good things that we have to be sharing.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. So remember to share the podcast with friends and family. We we grow best through word-of-mouth, so Sure do. Yeah. Until next time, always remember to stay curious. Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our community, visit journeywithcare.ca, or find Care Impact on Facebook and Instagram. Or just check the show notes for these links and all the links related to this episode.
Johan Heinrichs:
Share your thoughts, leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in faith and purpose. Together, let's discover how we can make a meaningful impact.
