National Day for Truth and Reconciliation Special (Revisited)
What Does Reconciliation Really Ask of Us?
Most of us have heard the word “reconciliation,” especially around the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. It sounds noble. Restoring relationships. Making things right. Healing a nation’s wounds.
But what does reconciliation actually look like, lived out on ordinary streets, in homes, churches, and workplaces? What does it require—personally, corporately, spiritually? And what are the difficult, honest steps beyond the headlines and hashtags?
These are questions at the heart of a Neighbourly conversation revisiting thoughtful voices from across the country: Indigenous and non-Indigenous, community leaders, caregivers, and neighbours grappling with history, faith, and what it means to move forward—slowly, together.
Where We Stand: Not the Beginning, Not the End
It's tempting to think of reconciliation as a moment—a ceremony, a statement, a policy, a completed action. But as one voice in the conversation put it, colonization isn’t a past tense problem; it shapes structures and perspectives in the present. There is no neutral starting line. We’re standing in the middle of a long, unfinished story.
For those involved in care work, social services, or community life, that starting place matters. It’s possible to enter this work without fully appreciating what came before, or without understanding the wounds that still linger.
One participant reflected on taking responsibility for their profession’s history of participating in cultural destruction, and making a personal commitment to learn, unlearn, and share from new perspectives 00:47. That transparency sets the tone: reconciliation begins by acknowledging where we are—culturally, professionally, and personally.
What Is Reconciliation? Many Voices, Many Meanings
Definitions of reconciliation varied among the voices gathered. Jim Thunder, an Oji-Cree MBA grad serving in government, described it as two parties coming together to acknowledge a wrong, and committing to rebuild, make amends, and seek a better relationship in the future 03:41.
For some, reconciliation is deeply spiritual. Jennifer Mason, an Anishinaabe woman of faith, shared how her journey began with unlearning the shame she’d attached to her own identity. She grew up believing that to belong in Christian spaces, she had to set aside her Indigenous self. Over years, she came to see that her Creator made no mistake: “God has just showed me that all of that was wrong and taught me how to love myself and that in that I am Indigenous. He has intentionally made me Anishinaabe and all that that entails, and that He didn't make any mistakes” 09:08.
Others, like Karen Jolly, framed reconciliation in relational terms: not necessarily restoring intimacy or erasing history, but at the very least removing barriers and making space for a new kind of relationship, even if that feels uncertain or incomplete 10:25.
Why Is This So Hard? Facing Discomfort Together
Naming what has been broken is uncomfortable. It’s easier to approach reconciliation as a trend or a buzzword, noted Dr. James Robertson, but that risks flattening real experiences and erasing the ongoing impact of colonialism and residential schools 07:32.
For churches, the journey can be especially tangled. Lynn Dick, a settler and executive director with experience fostering Indigenous children, described how churches and organizations often see reconciliation as “too political,” avoiding uncomfortable truths in favour of safer stories about children and families. Yet, as he points out, “Reconciliation is the gospel. Reconciliation is so central to the Bible. And yet somehow we've tailored that out… We curate our own theologies and to our convenience, because that hurts” 26:07.
That avoidance has consequences. Healing requires honesty about harm. Collaboration is impossible if one party can’t recognize its own role or risks.
What Does Active Reconciliation Look Like?
Passive listening and acknowledgment matter, but action is required too. Jim Thunder suggested starting simply: read the 94 Calls to Action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission—not just as government policy, but personally and within every circle of Canadian society. Ask: Which calls touch my own life, work, relationships, or responsibilities? Which am I called to respond to? 04:07
Joel Calabrese, a scholar and community leader, described “archaeology of theology”—digging into what we believe and where those beliefs come from, especially when it comes to faith and cultural assumptions. He recommends that churches seek out work by Indigenous authors, ask who and what shaped their understandings of scripture, and participate in Indigenous celebrations and gatherings. Sometimes that means simply showing up at a powwow, learning, and making relationships with a posture of humility rather than answers 12:10.
For families, active reconciliation may look more personal. Fostering, engaging with Indigenous communities, and making sure children remain connected to their cultures and story—all of these emerged in stories from the conversation.
One couple entered the world of fostering with the hope of learning and responding to real needs. It was difficult, at times chaotic, often nothing like imagined. “We didn’t want him to become white. We wanted him…to gain an understanding of who he was, what his heritage was, and that he could be proud of that. To help him learn those things, and in the process, we were learning as well” 20:04.
What Role Does Faith Play?
Faith surfaced throughout the conversation, not as a solution but as a grounding for real work.
Multiple guests named Jesus as central to their understanding of reconciliation. For some, this meant grappling deeply with scriptures about neighbour-love, forgiveness, humility, and the ministry of reconciliation.
Dr. James Robertson pointed to Philippians 2, describing how the way of Jesus involves setting aside personal rights and desires for the sake of relationship. “[If] I’m going to follow that Nazarene carpenter… it is now my choice to value our friendship or my desires. And what Christ has taught me is that our friendship matters more in the economy of God” 06:36.
Forgiveness, too, is not superficial. Karen Jolly and her husband, both leaders in their Indigenous and church communities, described reconciliation as requiring honesty, the acknowledgment of pain, and forgiveness that moves beyond words to listening, story, tears, and shared life: “There’s something in it that as we talk about those things that we’re trying to bring reconciliation, that we’re trying to bring unity…[that] the Kingdom of God would be present in this world” 28:10.
Why Is Listening a Vital First Step?
If reconciliation is about restoring relationship, then listening—without defence or agenda—is essential.
Jennifer Mason’s story is a reminder that both personal and community healing begin not from correcting, fixing, or lecturing others, but from simply sitting with their stories. Especially as a non-Indigenous settler or Christian, entering these conversations means hearing more than you speak.
Even when the invitation to speak feels absent, or the story is uncomfortable, listening tells a neighbour: “You belong. Your voice matters more than my certainty.”
[Pastor Harold Jolly] described the power of hearing stories, building unlikely friendships, and simply spending time together—sometimes over something as ordinary as a round of golf or a hockey game. These small gestures speak to the possibilities of connection beyond categories and past mistakes 28:50.
How Do We Avoid the Pitfall of Transactional Reconciliation?
There’s a risk in approaching reconciliation as a checklist: make an acknowledgment, read a summary, check a box, move on.
But relationships, by their very nature, are ongoing, sometimes messy, and full of ambiguity.
Jim Thunder reminded listeners that the Calls to Action are for everyone—not just institutions, but individuals. Real partnership emerges only when we bring reconciliation down to the grassroots: learning, reflecting, practicing togetherness, and sharing what we’re learning in our families, churches, and workplaces 04:47.
What Can Churches and Organizations Actually Do?
Churches, agencies, and organizations have a unique role—and responsibility—in reconciliation. Yet, many shy away, nervous that the work will become “too political” or “too messy.”
But as one participant put it: “If we’re going to find healing, let’s not pathologize the Indigenous. Let’s pathologize the church and see, okay, where is this stemming from? Why aren’t we effective in our ministries? Why is it us and them? Why can’t it be we?” 26:44.
Collaboration and honesty require vulnerability, mistakes, and sometimes, yes, making others (and ourselves) squirm. But the alternative is a status quo in which cycles continue and wounds remain unaddressed.
One Small Step This Week
This week, let your first act of reconciliation be listening. Find an Indigenous voice—a book, a podcast, a story, or a conversation—that you haven’t heard before. Don’t rush to fix or respond. Just listen, and pay attention to how it changes what you see in your neighbours, your city, your own story.
Reconciliation is not a task to complete, but a relationship to keep building. Sometimes, the most powerful thing we can do is make space—for another’s story, and for hope that healing, however slow, is possible.
Episode transcript Read the full transcript
National Day for Truth and Reconciliation: Making Room to Listen
Johan Heinrichs: Before we kick off season 6, it's the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. And as we were thinking about what we wanted to share this week, we kept coming back to an episode from a few years ago on Journey with Care, the podcast that eventually became what you're listening to now, Neighbourly. For that episode, we brought together voices from several conversations we've had over the years, and listening back, we felt that these were voices worth hearing again. Each person brings a different perspective on reconciliation, what it means, what it asks of us, and what it can look like in our relationships and communities and our neighbours. So as we approach this significant day, we're making a little bit of room to pause, reflect, and most importantly, listen.
Danika: I acknowledge that I have resided on the ancestral lands of Treaty 1, the traditional territory of the Anishinaabe, Cree, Oji-Cree, Dakota, and Dene peoples, and the national homeland of the Red River I also acknowledge that our water is procured from Shoal Lake 40 First Nation. I acknowledge that the social work profession, my chosen degree, has played an active role in destroying the cultural traditions of the Indigenous peoples of Canada. I am committed to discontinuing this practice and restoring those traditions as I enter into my career. I acknowledge that the education I received on the history of Canada has come from a colonial perspective, and I am committed to learning from different perspectives. Colonization is not a thing of the past but is still present in the structure and systems of Canadian society. I continue to learn and share what I have learned with those in my community, both now and with the future generation, in the spirit of Truth and Reconciliation.
Johan Heinrichs: Hey, welcome back to Journey with Care. I'm your host for today, Johan. We're so honoured to have you with us on this very important episode commemorating the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. So hopefully today we can explore the profound significance of reconciliation with our Indigenous brothers and sisters across Canada. So in this special episode, we'll hear from some inspiring voices who share their deeply personal and thoughtful insights on what reconciliation means to them. We're going to play some clips from our past conversations that we've had. We'll walk through the experiences, challenges, and hopes of both Indigenous and non-Indigenous individuals and their families. Because this day is not only about reflecting on the past, but also actively participating in a future where reconciliation is at the heart of our communities.
Johan Heinrichs: So we feel it's crucial that we come together to listen, learn, and engage in these conversations. We'll honour the resilience and strength of the Indigenous peoples, acknowledging the trauma imposed by colonialism, and commit to walking alongside them in a spirit of genuine partnership and respect. Reconciliation is a journey that requires humility, intentionality, and the willingness to face uncomfortable truths. So as we listen to our guests, let their words inspire you to strive for meaningful change in your life and in your community. By embracing reconciliation, we bring to life the call to love our neighbours as ourselves, promoting healing, restoring dignity, and nurturing relationships. This process can be challenging, but it's vital for fostering a world that reflects the fullness of God's kingdom. So here we go. First, let's hear from Jimmy Thunder, an OG Cree MBA graduate who is currently serving in the Premier's Office here in Manitoba.
What Does Reconciliation Mean?
Jim Thunder: Rebuilding Relationship and the 94 Calls to Action
Johan Heinrichs: We interviewed him in episode 7 of season 1, and we asked what reconciliation means to him. Here's what he had to say.
Jim Thunder: I would say reconciliation is when two parties come together, come to an agreement of a wrong being done, and have a renewed commitment to rebuild a relationship and to make amends and to commit to a better relationship into the future.
Johan Heinrichs: Jimmy also works in partnership with Circles of Reconciliation. Here he shares a practical step that we can all take to participate in reconciliation.
Jim Thunder: What we were seeing is that there's a lot of people who have this now renewed interest in learning about reconciliation and learning about our history. But it's just amazing to realize that we don't even have a common base yet to begin with. We're not even at square one together. And so a great starting point is to look at the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, not only the final report and all the research that's been done, but even just start at square one and just look at the 94 Calls to Action. How many Canadians do we have even today that don't know what the 94 Calls to Action are, what's in there, what are the themes, and much less which one of the Calls to Action can they commit to working on? And a lot of misconceptions are that the calls to action are directed towards the government, but it's actually meant for each member of Canadian society.
Wendi Park: There's even a whole section for the church, isn't there?
Jim Thunder: Exactly. Yeah, there definitely is. Let's go through all of these calls to action one by one every day for 94 days, and let's commit to reading each and every one of them. And not just ourselves, but let's challenge all those around us, everyone in our networks, our organizations. Let's get people to read these and to commit to action on them.
Reconciliation, Apology, and Christian Humility
Dr. James Robertson: When Relationship Matters More Than Being Right
Johan Heinrichs: Next up, let's revisit our conversation with Dr. James Robertson of Tyndale University in Toronto. We sat down on episode 11 in season 1 to talk about his book Overlooked and the church's relationship in history with the Indigenous peoples. In this clip, Dr. Robertson shares an illustration of what it means as a Christian to engage in reconciliation.
Dr. James Robertson: Let's say we've had a friendship for years, and if I have been perpetually and constantly doing something that harms you— maybe not intentionally, maybe not physical, but I'm using insensitive language. We can put it right down to a baseline. Like, I'm just saying something about you or to you that you don't appreciate. You know, you're like, okay, at first, well, this is James, I'm going to let this go. But eventually, because we have a relationship, you bring it to my attention. You're like, listen, this is how it's going. Well, now I have a choice. You know, I can be like, well, I didn't mean it like that.
Dr. James Robertson: And we can have all those fake sort of, I'm sorry that you feel that way, those terrible apology apologies that are just reiterated.
Wendi Park: Mm-hmm.
Dr. James Robertson: For me, if I'm going to follow that Nazarene carpenter, that super cool God of mine, human, that lived 2,000 years ago, I don't have an option other than to be like, I hear you. You're right. It is now my choice to value our friendship or my desires. And what Christ has taught me is that our friendship matters more in the economy of God. And therefore, my rights, my desires, which we've heard so much of in the past few years and people reacting to that, and what saddens me is, of course, a lot of Christian voices are hopping on that as well. But if we are followers of Christ, I mean, it's right in Philippians 2. Like, he didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped, but he humbled himself to the point of death, death on a cross. At the very least, I can look at my sister in Christ and say, you know what, I'm sorry, you're right.
Dr. James Robertson: I will do better going forward. Please forgive me. And then that gives you the chance to say, I do forgive you.
Johan Heinrichs: Dr. Robertson then shared some of his concerns with reconciliation becoming a buzzword rather than facilitating change. Here's what he had to say.
Dr. James Robertson: I think the damage to reconciliation now is one, it'll become trendy and like all trends, it'll go away. And this cannot go away.
Johan Heinrichs: Right.
Dr. James Robertson: And 2, the words things are better, but there's no sense of community. There's no actual respect for Indigenous perspectives in a way that will actually facilitate change. And of course, the word for it, which I think is a great word for it, both biblically and realistically, the word reconciliation. That's what concerns me about the trajectory of settler and Indigenous relations.
Identity, Faith, and Decolonizing the Mind
Jennifer Mason: Learning to Be Proudly Anishinaabe
Johan Heinrichs: Moving on to an earlier episode, episode 10 of season 1. Our season 1 host Melvina sat down with Jennifer Mason, an Anishinaabe woman who's one of Melvina's fellow co-workers at Inner City Youth Alive here in Winnipeg, sharing what reconciliation means to her.
Jennifer Mason: Jesus is at the center of everything because of how real he is for me, and so everything always comes back to my faith. And so for me, it stems from You know, I grew up in a home where Jesus was in the home, but what I learned was to know Him well, to be a good Christian, meant that I couldn't be me. It meant that I had to learn how to look like someone else, to act like someone else, to be like someone else in order to be a good Christian. And it's been a really long journey, but for sure, actively, at least the last 10 years, God has just showed me that all of that was wrong and taught me how to love myself and that in that I am Indigenous. He has intentionally made me Anishinaabe and all that that entails, and that He didn't make any mistakes. It wasn't, oops, I did this, you got to figure out how to make it better. And, He intentionally chose for me to be Anishinaabe. And he has been teaching me that.
Jennifer Mason: So my journey of reconciliation, it began with decolonizing my mind because what I was taught was done so well.
Wendi Park: Yeah.
Jennifer Mason: That I rejected all of the things that were associated with me being Indigenous, with being First Nations. And he's like, nope, I knew what I was doing when I made you, and I want you to be proud of that. And so, yeah, he's taught me to love myself and to be proud of the fact that I am Anishinaabe.
Karen Jolly: Mending What Has Been Broken
Johan Heinrichs: Our next clip, we hear from Karen Jolly, a pastor and Indigenous community leader who was our guest on season 1, episode 14. We're going to hear from her husband Howard a little later. But here's Karen Jolly being asked the same question. What does reconciliation mean to you?
Karen Jolly: I think probably the biggest thing, fixing something that has been broken, and it carries into many different places, right? Like, but probably the strongest thing is relationships. When relationships are broken, there needs to be a time where you bring people together. You talk about what's happened and then you try to fix and mend that relationship then. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you become best friends.
Jim Thunder: Yeah.
Karen Jolly: But it, it just means that there is nothing between you and the other person, but that you can be on friendly terms. Not necessarily best friends, but at least you've talked about the thing that has come between you. And I guess even as— when you think of the country we live in, and I don't know how we're going to fix what's been broken in our country. That one is a bigger question.
What Can Churches Do About Reconciliation?
Joel Calabrese: Examine Your Theology and Build Relationships
Johan Heinrichs: Moving ahead to season 2, Tim, who is part of our executive team here at CareImpact, was our guest host and interviewed Joel Calabrese, a dedicated community leader and scholar with a deep interest in theology and Indigenous reconciliation. He's working alongside of NAITS, North American Institute for Indigenous Theological Studies. He also brings his experience as an archaeologist to share his perspectives on reconciliation. In this clip, Joel shares a few things we could as Christians and as the church do to participate in reconciliation.
Joel Calabrese: Here are a few things. Do your own personal reflection and do some archaeology on your theology and dig into your own theology and put some context and story to it. You know, who told you that? Where did it come from? Why do you believe that certain kind of thing? Particularly with things that disturb you and bring up that unemotional response. It seems like a lot of church communities do a book study once a year or a few times a year, have different book groups. There are a lot, significant amount of Indigenous authors following Jesus that you could incorporate. Your church should be doing that, particularly in Canada. In this land that we now call Canada, this is something that has been— it's part of how we think about things, this aspect of reconciliation. with the R-E in parentheses, because I don't know if there's ever been conciliation to be R-E'd to.
Joel Calabrese: So Richard Twiss's book, any of his, Mark Charles's book on the Doctrine of Discovery would be a good one as well. And they have questions in them that you can go through as a group. They're built for group discussion. So get everybody in the church reading some of those. And if they are not even part of what you are thinking the church leadership is thinking about, incorporating into their church, I think that needs to be discussion.
Tim Smith: Hmm.
Joel Calabrese: And I think that's sort of an internal thing the church can do. And I've talked about the personal individual reflection kind of stuff of archaeology of theology. But I think just start celebrating with people. Go to powwow. There are gatherings and celebrations and dance competitions and things like that. And try to get your church group, your whatever community to go, whatever community is willing to go. This, this is an obligation for everybody across Turtle Island is to build that relationship. This is the land we're on.
Joel Calabrese: These are the treaties we're part of in any of those things.
Reconciliation With God and Identity in Christ
Melissa Spence: The Father Who Loved First
Johan Heinrichs: Let's take a hop back to episode 5 of season 1 with Melissa Spence, This is also our most listened to episode on the podcast so far. Melissa is a pastor's wife living here on Treaty 1 in Winnipeg, and Melissa was asked what reconciliation means to her.
Melissa Spence: So reconciliation to me is reconciling to God the Father and learning to have that image, to take on his image in how we live our lives and see ourselves. So it's all about identity in Him and what Jesus has done for us. So Jesus is a prime example of what we on Earth, here on Earth, should be, where His Kingdom is. The Kingdom is us, and we need to be reconciled to Him so that God could be glorified. It's actually the Lord God, our Father, who actually started the reconciliation process. And when He sent His Son to die for us. So in my mindset before, I used to think that the Lord sent His Son so that He could love us again. But that's not the case, that He actually sent His Son because He loved us, not to make Him love us.
Melissa Spence: In religion, it teaches you that, that we have to work for His love and that It just comes out in that story of the prodigal son. Like, we call it the prodigal son, but I think I'd rather call it the sons, the elder and the prodigal. And so I was kind of like that elder son who had everything that the father had. I was living in his household, and he was the oldest son, and he had double portion of the inheritance, but he didn't see that. And so he was working, and why, why, you see this whole conversation with The elder son and the father, whenfather, when they're talking about the prodigal son, like, you didn't kill the fatted calf for me. And he— and the Lord said, everything I have is yours.
Melvina Gabosch: Yes.
Melissa Spence: And he could have just killed the calf whenever he wanted to.
Danika: Yeah.
Melissa Spence: And so reconciliation, I think, is just understanding that Jesus died on the cross for us, rose was buried and rose again so that he could reveal the Father to us.
Cross-Cultural Foster Care and Learning in Relationship
Lynn Dick: Becoming Part of an Indigenous Community
Johan Heinrichs: In episode 20 of season 2, Wendi sat down with Lynn Dick, Executive Director of the Evangelical Mennonite Mission Conference. Lynn discussed being a settler And then his experience fostering children with Indigenous heritage. Here's what he had to say.
Wendi Park: So your path into fostering was through respite, and you got a feel, and obviously it tugged on your heart that maybe this is something that I could offer in a parenting role and provide a safe and nurturing home. How was that leap from just general fostering to going cross-cultural, with Indigenous people being overrepresented in the child welfare system, what was it like for you to go there?
Lynn Dick: Well, that was actually fairly intentional on our part. When we looked at getting involved with fostering, we felt that we were being led to do this with Indigenous people, with Indigenous kids, because we saw such a, such a great need there, and we wanted to learn We already were looking at it at that time already. There's got to be something to this. There's got to be something that we as— like now we're learning the term as settlers— but that we can do to start to build some of this reconciliation, right? This was before the TRC was even a thing. But we just felt like God was saying to us, you guys got to put yourself out there and do something like this. When we had our first placement, it was, it was like trial by fire. We had a two-and-a-half-year-old little guy that came to be with us, and he was just—
Lynn Dick: wow.
Lynn Dick: He was like, he was a whirlwind, right? Like, he came in and energy galore. He had some disabilities that arose from being FAS, so he was ADHD and different kind of things like that. And, when you first go into some of these things, you have this idyllic thing of, oh, we're going to really—
Lynn Dick: Just love the child, right?
Lynn Dick: We're just going to love the child and it's all going to be wonderful. And it was like, oh my goodness. We started to say that, this little guy was our spiritual exercise, right? And if you think about it, when you think of doing any kind of exercise, if you want to build a muscle to get stronger, you put resistance to it. Right? What do we learn through different trials? How does that— how do we learn to be resilient in another area? And that was what we were learning here. This was— we were learning something here. We were learning about a family, about a situation. We got to be his parents for three and a half years until he was able to transition back to be with his mother and with his other brothers and sisters. It was a really neat process.
Wendi Park: And did you learn a lot about his Mm-hmm.
Lynn Dick: I mean, one of the things that it allowed us to do was to become part of the community. We got to learn and get to know the social workers who, the majority of them were Indigenous. We get to learn about his community that he was part of, go to the celebrations, to the powwows. Because one of the things that we wanted to make sure was we didn't want— I hope this sounds not too strange, but we didn't want him to become white. We wanted him to be able to be part of, our lives, but to gain an understanding of who he was, what his heritage was, and that he could be proud of that. To, to help him to learn those things, and in the process, we were learning as well.
Residential School Trauma, Healing, and Hope
Jared Ross: A Ministry of Reconciliation
Johan Heinrichs: Next, we hear from Jared Ross, who shared his story walking through trauma. And even though he's a young adult, he talks about the implications that residential schools had on him and his family. I sat down with Jared to share his story in a two-part series in episodes 4 and 5 in season 2. Really inspiring story, but here's what he had to say about what reconciliation means to him.
Jared Ross: So I think like the reconciliation part, like, the way that I live my Christian life is like I try and go by the Word and what it says, you know. So ministry of reconciliation out of 2 Corinthians 5:18 about, the Lord reconciling people to him, but also at the same time we carry this ministry of reconciliation and we're just pleading, come back to God, you know. And I think that's just the way I viewed reconciliation was just like, okay, that's what I want for my people. as well. And seeing that vision and also just the Revelation scripture that I mentioned, I was just like, the Ministry of reconciliation to me just means like, I want them to be healed from this trauma that came from residential schools.
Jared Ross: I feel like if we go through that and also just walk through that healing of what happened, but also just not carrying that shame anymore, I feel like we'll just see such a huge revival that comes out of the First Nations people. There's so many young people who are still walking through what I did and not getting the gospel in such a true form. And I feel like once they understand on the healing process, but also understanding the true gospel, I feel like the youth are the key to reach out to every youth in Canada.
Jared Ross: And I feel like this revival would just start from the First Nations people.
Treaties, the Common Bowl, and Shared Responsibility
Ray Aldred: Sharing the Land and Honouring Sacred Humanity
Johan Heinrichs: Another interview that Tim led, he sat down with Ray Aldred, an author and status quo from northern Alberta and director of Indigenous Studies at the Vancouver School of Theology. And he shared his perspective on the Common Law and treaties and their relationship to reconciliation.
Tim Smith: But they have essentially set the table for reconciliation in Canada. And I immediately, as you were making those comments, I was thinking of the ancient practice I learned about called solha, which you're probably familiar with, where the one who is offended actually sets the table to sit down and eat with the person who's offended them. And I was very moved when I heard you speak to that. I don't know if there's more you want to unpack or you can correct exactly how I'm understanding what you were talking about, but even the funding of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, you were saying, was being done by funds that belong to Indigenous people.
Ray Aldred: Yeah, it came out of their settlement. Were the residential schools. That's what paid for it. The treaty among the Six Nations with the newcomers, it's called the Common Bowl. Aspects of it are called the Common Bowl. We all eat from the same bowl. One of the privileges of living in this land is that to be fed, to be fed by Mother Earth, to be able to enjoy the bounty of Mother Earth. This is to share with everybody.
Ray Aldred: The idea though was that everybody should share, not that some should have all of it or others shouldn't have all of it. And it's not a merit-based kind of a thing. It is what it means to live in connection with the earth, to be able to be fed. A friend of mine said Indigenous people were advocating for universal Medicare long before Tommy Douglas did. This part of their thinking in the, in the making the treaty. This is why they would always say that this, when they were making treaty in one place, they said this needed to apply to everybody, all the First Nations and all of Canada, when it was talking about providing the medicine chest, as it's called in some of the number of treaties. So the idea is that human beings are sacred, they're sacred beings. So we should be respectful of them.
Why the Church Cannot Avoid Reconciliation
Wendi Park: Moving From “Us and Them” to “We”
Johan Heinrichs: On our second last clip, we're going to hear from Wendi, our beloved host and co-founder of CareImpact. This was taken from episode 13 of season 2, where the tables were actually flipped here. Wendi was actually being interviewed by Dr. James Robertson, whom you heard from earlier, a little bit on organizations and the church working together for the purpose of reconciliation, something that she's really passionate about.
Wendi Park: There's so many good organizations. There's tons of assets in all the cities across Canada, tons of programs and oodles of resources being thrown, thrown at these nonprofits, and a lot of them doing good things, but they just don't communicate, particularly with the church. And when we wanted to go into saying, hey, I think we are feeling called, look at the research on residential schools and the tie with the church. We've got to do something. We've got to— like, nobody's talking about it in the sanctuaries, at least in my tradition and in the circles I was in. Why isn't anybody talking about this? I was warned by very prominent leaders saying, oh, that's nice, but just don't go there. That just gets messy.
Dr. James Robertson: Yeah.
Wendi Park: Just talk about children and families, but let's not go into the TRC or reconciliation because that's just another thing that's more political. And I'm like, reconciliation is the gospel. Reconciliation is so central to the Bible. And yet somehow we've tailored that out in whatever denomination. It's been easy to tailor it out. We curate our own narrative, right? We curate our own theologies and to our convenience, because that hurts. Like, I've seen people squirm. But fortunately, God gave me the gift of making people squirm.
Wendi Park: And I don't mind that because I think we need to go there. It's not a condemning thing. It's just like— If we're going to find healing, let's not pathologize the Indigenous. Let's not pathologize the one that can't keep the job or the homeless, the cycle of poverty. Let's pathologize the church and see, okay, where is this stemming from?
Dr. James Robertson: Hmm.
Wendi Park: And why aren't we effective in our ministries? Why is it us and them? Why can't it be we? And I want to see a lot more collaboration, we-ing, if you call that, with people. But I think we can do a lot more togetherness.
Reconciliation in Everyday Relationships
Harold Jolly: Hearing Stories, Building Friendships, Spending Time Together
Johan Heinrichs: To close out our episode today, we're going to hear from Pastor Harold Jolly, Karen Jolly's husband, whom you also heard from earlier. This is taken from the episode The Estranged Indigenous from the Loving the Stranger Among Us series, which is episode 32 in season 2. Harold shares both from a pastoral and Indigenous perspective of what reconciliation means.
Harold Jolly: There's, there's a brighter day coming, and even in the midst of darkness, in the midst of chaos, uh, there's this call to trust God and that he, he's working in all things for good. And so there's this hope, and there's this idea too that all the things that happen matter to God. So in talking about them, there's something in it that we're not just talking about it to make people feel guilty or, or to talk down to people or to hurt people. But there's something in it that as we talk about those things that we're trying to bring reconciliation, that we're trying to bring unity. The way that I think of it is like we're trying to break forth the Kingdom of God.
Wendi Park: Yes.
Harold Jolly: You know, that the Kingdom of God would be present in this world. And the idea of that happening is the reconciliation that happens. And I think that there's something very powerful about acknowledging the pain and about tears being in that, and also too, people coming together and saying, will you forgive me or forgive my people? And a person saying, I forgive, I forgive. Not just superficial, but in light of all that's happened, I choose to forgive.
Wendi Park: So for example, not superficial would look like what day to day?
Ray Aldred: Oh man.
Harold Jolly: I guess just the hearing of stories, just the embracing of each other, just building friendships, close friendships. I have close friends that are Caucasian, and very close friends that are Caucasian. And I work with people that are Caucasian. They're very encouraging. And I think that we acknowledge the history and we talk about it and we work through it together. So—
Wendi Park: And you go golfing.
Tim Smith: I go golfing. You go golfing with them too.
Harold Jolly: Play hockey.
Harold Jolly: Yeah, yeah, spend time. Spend time with them. I think that's huge.
Johan Heinrichs: Yeah.
Tim Smith: Oh yeah. Just enjoying being around each other.
What Does Reconciliation Require of Me?
Johan Heinrichs: Listening back to those voices a couple of years later, I think the question is still worth asking. What does reconciliation require of me? And maybe this week, the first step is simply to listen. Listen to an Indigenous voice or story you haven't heard before. Listen to something you didn't know and pay attention to what it might change in the way you see your neighbours. Reconciliation isn't something we can wrap up in a single day or a single podcast episode. It's something we continue to learn and live out in relationship with one another. And with that, we're also closing the chapter on this season of Neighbourly. When we meet you here again, we'll be kicking off season 6.
Johan Heinrichs: Shannon and I have been doing a lot of thinking about where Neighbourly is headed, and we're excited to share some of that with you. And we got a little bit of news to share as well, but you'll have to tune in. Until then, thanks for listening and for making room for these stories. The stories we share here remind us that care does not have to be perfect to be powerful. It just has to be present. Neighbourly is an initiative of CareImpact, a Canadian charity equipping churches, agencies, and communities with technology and training to care better together. This episode was produced by CareCreatives Co., a social enterprise of CareImpact. If you're building a podcast and want help with strategy, editing, or full production, visit carecreativesco.ca to connect with us.
Johan Heinrichs: I'm Johan. Thanks for listening, and be that kind of neighbour someone will never forget in a good way.
SONG: Sister, take my hand.
