Hijacked by Busy: Overbooked and Underconnected with Zach Manntai
The Cost of Indifference Series: Episode 1
Have we allowed busyness to overshadow what truly matters in our lives?
Journey With Care explores this pressing question with guest Zach Manntai, who delves into the addictive nature of modern busyness fueled by constant technological distractions.
Hosts Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs engage with Zach in a conversation about decision paralysis, the undervalued principle of saying 'no,' and the profound impact of purposeful, intentional relationships.
Amid discussions of mental burnout, capacity, and the critical importance of Sabbath and reflection, they provide a roadmap for reclaiming focus and compassion in everyday life.
This is a challenge slow down and intentionally invest time in our immediate surroundings, encouraging moments of pause and genuine connection.
Guest Links:
For the City (Calgary): https://cschurch.ca/centre-for-the-city
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Zach Manntai:
Dopamine hits from from technology beeps and notifications and doom scrolling and this constant feed of information have created a brokenness in us where we don't actually know how to slow down and how to be bored, how to connect with people right in front of us. Because these amazing technological marvels and this massive amount of humans all around us content creating all the time, they're a facsimile for connection.
Johan Heinrichs:
Do you feel stretched too thin to truly care? It's something that many of us wrestle with more often than Wendi like to admit. Between endless to do list, daily demands, and good intentions, it's easy to miss out on what matters most. But here's the truth. The antidote to being hijacked by busy isn't doing less, it's focusing on what matters most. This is Journey with Care, a podcast by CareImpact where curious Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life stories and honest conversations. Hey, Johan here. Today, we're diving into a topic that feels all too familiar, being hijacked by busy. How does busyness and decision paralysis prevent us from showing up with compassion? And how can we reclaim our focus and make room for the people that matter the most? Here's a personal scenario, one that's played out in my life more times than I'd like to admit.
Johan Heinrichs:
You see, I'm a list guy. There's nothing more satisfying than starting my day with a plan. Tasks written in my dollar store notebook, ready to be checked off. And if I don't make my list the night before, I often can't sleep. My brain just keeps going and going. Don't forget that email. Remember to clean the inbox. Oh, and make sure you message this person, and don't leave your guitar out.
Johan Heinrichs:
It's way too dry, and it might Zach. And that's actually happened before. So it's kind of a recurring nightmare that I have, but you get the idea. When I'm in the zone moving through my list, I feel productive. I feel like I'm doing something that matters. But occasionally, more often than I'd like to admit, my laser focus comes at a cost. There are times when my wife would try to talk to me, just, you know, connect after a long day working at a school. She might have something weighing on her heart or she just wants to share about her day.
Johan Heinrichs:
Just connect. But instead of leaning in, instead of asking how she's doing, I get stuck in my own head. I'll just sometimes nod and say, uh-huh. But I'm really just thinking about my next task. The next thing I can check off my list. Or worse, I'll be snappy at her because her timing just doesn't fit into my perfectly planned out day. But here's the thing. It's not because I don't wanna be there for her.
Johan Heinrichs:
It's because I've allowed my focus to be hijacked by busyness. Moments like these remind me just how easy it is to let the urgent overshadow the important. And that's exactly what we're getting into today. How does busyness and decision paralysis block us from showing up with compassion? And more importantly, how can we reclaim our focus to make room for the people and moments that truly matter? Joining us is Zach Manntai, a returning guest who has a lot to bring to this conversation. But before I get into it, we just wanna thank you for following along and sharing these conversations. The best way we can grow this podcast is through word-of-mouth. And, hey, if you like to support the podcast or if you wanna sponsor an episode, head over to CareImpact.ca/podcast. And I also wanna invite you to join our Facebook group.
Johan Heinrichs:
It's called the CareImpact Podcast Group. It's a place to continue this conversation beyond the podcast. Like minded people, we're having polls, discussions around topics, announcements about upcoming meetups and events, and even opportunities for you to get involved in future episodes. So find it on Karen Zach Facebook page or use the direct link in the show notes. Alright. Our guest is Zach Manntai. Zach is the leader of For the City based in Calgary, an organization that drives community transformation through bold ideas and meaningful connections. He has a unique ability to cut through the noise and focus on what truly matters.
Johan Heinrichs:
Zach is here to help us explore how we can reclaim focus and overcome decision paralysis to show up with compassion. And with Zach joining me is my cohost, Wendi. Wendi, you wanna start our conversation off here?
Wendi Park:
Zach, I'm so excited to have this conversation with you and Johan, and we're gonna be talking about busyness. And that's something that's near and dear. Like, we've all had scheduling issues, and, we have full lives. So so this is a a a conversation we can all take to heart. So we're just so glad that you're in the real. This is a conversation we can all relate to. I'm just curious to start us off. What is some habit or mindset shift that helps you stay focused on what matters most in a season of busy?
Zach Manntai:
I think the honest truth is that this is as much aspirational as it is directional where it's like, I think I should be doing this. I want to be doing this as it is something that I actually do. A big part of what I think does ground me, though, is my connection to the people and and things in my direct vicinity, things that are going on in my neighborhood, things that are coming and going in my home, stuff that actually affects my family, and trying to think about how my actions and the time I spend in these things can be really impactful. One of the things that we can easily do in this world is just get overwhelmed with noise and all of this sense of not enough. And I think that if I sit back and I sit in a chair, I think I posted on the socials the other day, starting my morning with a cup of coffee and a book with my kids is a really grounding way. Now I acknowledge that that's a privileged ability to be able to do that. But just being able to turn off some of my devices and sit in a space and be with them, it's really helped me remember what matters most.
Johan Heinrichs:
I find there's there seems to be a culture of glorification of busyness almost, and it's often at a cost. I know even for myself, like Wendi I'm not feeling busy, I feel like I'm not doing anything of worth. And I know that's a me issue. I was just praying this morning with a group of people, and we were talking about be still and know that I am God. And I'm like, how do I be still? I don't know how to do that. Wendi, you probably have a few of the same problems. How do you how do you manage that?
Wendi Park:
Well, I can so relate. And it's one thing people say, oh, you have to have balance in your schedule and have some some quiet time, and and you can't do everything cognitively. You know what? Amen, sister. Amen, brother. I hear you. You can't clutter. However, any moms out there, any people working full time and raising a family or and having other commitments, it's easier said than done. It's not even a mindset where you're just saying, hey.
Wendi Park:
I'm just not gonna take it all on. Sometimes the world brings it on you, and you have to learn how to balance their seasons that are just full without you asking for it, at least for myself as a parent and leading an organization with a team and and things like that. So I think there there needs to be a bit of compassion, not to mention, I think different people have different tolerances of what busy should look like and what we can handle. But, back to you, Zach. I'm just curious. What are some things that you are doing to combat that? I know you have a full life as well. What do you do when you have so much thrown at you, and how do you sift through that all?
Zach Manntai:
I think the biggest thing that I again, as much aspirational as practical is I I would have to say no to things. And I think one of the things that I I learned a number of years ago was how many things I was saying yes to because I felt both personally that they mattered a lot. They were important. These were conversations or things that were going on in my community that truly were good things. But when I sat back and, for a number of personal reasons, almost had a full mental breakdown, it came down to the fact that I realized I had said yes to too many things that were good, and it was actively harming me. And so even that phrase that you used, Johan, like, busy is almost a badge of honor. It's like Wendi we sit back and think, oh, how are you doing today, Wendi? Oh, I'm busy. It's like, that's not a good thing.
Zach Manntai:
And so, again, a sense of privilege. I have really tried to find a balance between the good things in my life and the things that are necessities, things that are really going to create the changes in my family and in the world around me that I can actually touch and be a part of. And that means that sometimes when I'm thinking about all of my my schedules and my calendar, I'm putting things off for weeks or months that are capable of being done in that situation because urgency is often something that gets in the way of actually walking out the stuff that we're talking about. I was at a a gathering last night with a couple of other crazy Calgarians focusing on community building and and how relationships are important. And one of the things that came up repeatedly was how both systems like the way we build our neighborhoods and the way that we've built some of our our focus on a capitalistic pursuit of profits have actually harmed our ability to just get to know our neighbors and the people in our our natural communities, our villages. And one of the things that kept coming up was there was a a postal worker, and they were still in one of those regions where Canada Post does to the house mail. And when she stops and has a conversation with someone that she doesn't have an intimate relationship, but she has a familiar relationship with, it becomes an an impactful part of their life. And so that person is slowing down enough, and I use the phrase intentional collisions where it's like I'm intentionally creating spaces where I know I'm gonna bump into Wendi or I'm gonna bump into Johan because they matter to me and because those relationships matter to me, it forces me to slow down.
Zach Manntai:
It forces me to change my expectations of what success looks like because I could easily just turn it into busy. I'm running from one meeting to another, one Zoom to another, one thing to the next, and I don't have room to just slow down in my cul de sac, slow down on a walk with my dog, and have a conversation with someone else. And I find when I really look at the the flip side to this overwhelming dilemma that we're wrestling with is that by slowing down and intentionally crafting spaces where I know I'm going to spend time with my neighbors and the people that are directly around me, I find that I end up gaining health, and I'm I'm able to actually do some of the other important work that I work in better because I've been able to give myself a chance to breathe.
Wendi Park:
That is so helpful because when we look at our day, we all have no matter where we come from, what personality types, what economic status we have, what city we're in, we all have twenty four hours. We all have seven days a week. We all have permission to take Sabbath. In fact, encouragement to receive the Sabbath from the Lord, whether that's on a a day or just incorporated. The Bible talks so much about rest and relationships. And so what you're talking about is so important. It's not just what we cram in as doing. It's what we're being in those spaces.
Wendi Park:
And that needs to take precedence as well in a a culture that is very much capitalistic, moving up and succeeding and being more productive. Now you're talking to an Enneagram eight who loves productivity and efficiency, and yet relationships are so valuable. Can we have a meaningful, purposeful life while being in relationships? How have you played that out? Have you been on purpose in the relationships you invest in? Because I I also know, even Jesus knows, there were crowds looking after him. And there was times he got away and then times he had compassion, or he always had compassion, but times he stopped even in the busyness to have compassion. What's that look like for you in Calgary?
Zach Manntai:
Well, one of the things that it's it's a it's a bit of a sociological trope, but there's a a limit to the amount of active relationships we can have. Healthy levels of relationship where you have the the ones and twos. Usually, this is husband, wife, maybe family, your children. Then you've got a slightly larger troop that's like your slightly larger, maybe direct family, brothers and sisters, parents, that kind of thing. Then you've got an extended family of up to 70 people. And then you've got this limit at around a 40. And so if you think as a human being before 1900, the active relationships we would have would be in that 40 person kind of thing. The comparison between then and now is such a a massive shift where when I think about my friends on Facebook or my connections on LinkedIn, the amount of people that live even just in my neighborhood that I drive past every day, Calgary is expected to hit 2,000,000 people within the next decade.
Zach Manntai:
How do I live in a city where I'm expected to both connect with, to have relationship with, to interact with that many people and still do it in a healthy way. For me, during COVID, one of the things that I think I actually found really healthy was that my slowdown, those intentional collisions, started creating little hubs of connection. For example, I I love coffee. And if you ever spend time with me here in Calgary, I'll I'll give you an experience of a lifetime around Wendi.
Wendi Park:
For good coffee in Calgary. You you showed me some good places, and, you're talking to, some, coffee lovers here.
Zach Manntai:
Well, I try to share that love of coffee with others. And because in COVID, you couldn't do anything of gathering, you couldn't meet in buildings, I started running a cafe cul de sac. And so I live in this beautiful little cul de sac, and I'd bring my coffee machine out and get all my neighbors around. We'd have conversations and times of this, and it became a weekly rhythm of connecting. And it didn't matter if you were there every single time or if there was a time where you had to skip out. There was always a knowledge that you were gonna be able to come back and loop back in. And so by having these kind of rhythms created, there was a beauty in connecting with these people on the mundane, on the less beautiful, exciting parts of life, not the Instagram, not the TikTok reels. These are the kinds of things where it's like, hey.
Zach Manntai:
How was your day? It was boring. I did some paperwork. I cut the lawn. Well, that's awesome. Let's let's drink a coffee and spend time together. Those were some of the most beautiful times of just creating space and holding it for my community members that for me, I've tried really hard to keep that going. There's a phrase that Byung Chul Johan uses in a book called The Burnout Society. It's called self exploitation, where I do this to myself.
Zach Manntai:
I like take advantage of myself. I try and take these little crazy ideas, and I scale them. And sometimes the biggest problem is is that when I try and scale my little cul de sac cafe and start running a cafe for, like, 5,000 people, guess what? I can't do that. And so I have to remember that even when I do see something good by pouring fuel onto it, by trying to go to this extreme, I'm actually exploding myself and harming myself, leading to things like burnout and that pressure to achieve and a constant need for productivity are are symptoms of that sense of this isn't enough. But if I can say just sitting here with you, having a conversation with a Wendi, and having to accomplish nothing apart from relationship, going back to what you said, Johan, that sense of just being, this is truly an identity thing. And it's it's a sense of I am enough as I am. God created me as a beautiful, loved being. That's enough.
Zach Manntai:
I don't have to accomplish. There's a a beautiful language around, like, the Enneagram, and I'm an Enneagram too. And one of the things about the helper is that we often see our identity as only being good and useful when I serve someone else. When I empty myself out, only then do I actually have value. And one of the things that God has been trying to teach me over my entire life, and I'm still learning this, is that I can never earn their love more. I can never find more value in their eyes than I did when I was born, when I had nothing. And I could give nothing, and I needed everything. In that moment, I had all of the love of God that they would ever show to me in that moment.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. I think that's really valuable out of a sense of being and tied with that, our belovedness of being enough because we are created in god's image, out of our belovedness, out of our being, getting curious of who I am, not in a self glorifying way, but being curious about how God created us. You you sharing about that your inner motivations on an enneagram or there's a variety of ways of finding out who we are, I think is a great starting point because out of that, we can see the shadow sides. We can see the the the ways that God has created us to be with others that you don't have to be a certain way and say, oh, we have to scale our schedules down like this because that's the glorified way. But out of you being, Zach, other people are getting the authentic you, and I love what you're saying. It's more about the quality and the intentionality of our connections than dropping all things and not doing the initiatives that you're doing. You're still doing things, but that's not necessarily your identity. It's coming out of who you are.
Wendi Park:
And I think that's beautiful when we can actively still do stuff out of a a deep sense of who we are.
Zach Manntai:
Yeah. And and this is just me and my one person's perspective. The three of us are very different humans. And the strengths and the skill sets that we have, therefore, have a chance to be expressed in different ways. Me doing hyper local individual relationship stuff with my neighbors doesn't stop me from being involved in politics, involved in government's work, involved in systems change. It just means that when I do choose to go into those spaces, they have to still let me do the smaller things where I actually think, getting to know my kids and spending time with them is just as important as anything I might do that would touch all Albertans. And I think that that's a wrestling act that sometimes we have when we think about this think bigger, start local kind of thing. We have to hold them intention.
Zach Manntai:
Mhmm. I've worked in weird roles. If you ever look at my CV, you'll you'll chuckle because I I've done everything from work as a behavioral specialist in a psych hospital to being a paramedic firefighter to working in government relations and public policy. I have touched everything from someone has a car accident. I'm there with them in that one. And I've written policy that has affected all the four and a half million Albertans. And I have that weird thing where it's like, I where am I gonna put my time? Where am I gonna allow myself to be this? And it and it isn't an or thing. It can be and, But if we let the and become such a thing that we overwhelm ourselves because of that expectation of I have to be Zach or I have to be Wendi, it's harmful to us.
Zach Manntai:
So lean into your strengths. Lean into the things that you're good at. And I think that in that moment, figuring out what matters most both to you and to the people around you is an exploration.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. And today, we're talking about being hijacked by busy. And the the detriment we're talking about to our relationships is that it can eat away. It can steal away our compassion, that relational compassion for the other, and even for ourselves, because we get on this, hamster wheel, and we just go, go, go. And before you know it, I don't think anybody chooses to go on a hamster wheel, but all of a sudden, it the the speed intensifies. And what I've noticed is that then relationships and those closest to me, they can suffer. I can suffer in self kindness. Can you tell me about what that looks like for you and how you've been how you've been able to maintain or pursue compassion for people while your proposals intensify, while your negotiations intensify, while your family life, just the the natural day to day things intensify.
Wendi Park:
How have you gotten off that hamster wheel?
Zach Manntai:
Well, there's been the the worst side of things. A number of years ago, I had, some significant health concerns. I had, just welcomed our third child into the world. I was working a full time managerial role with a a provincial nonprofit. I was on the board of three nonprofits plus serving in our local church and then trying to help build into my community.
Wendi Park:
And You're basically a subject expert on this episode.
Zach Manntai:
For crying out loud, honestly. And then we had a major family emergency that stopped my life. And this is where that mental break mixed with physical exhaustion, mixed with relational just shuttering happened. And in that moment, I had, for better or for worse, a decision I had to make. I had to decide, am I going to allow for me to breathe? Am I going to allow for my family to have me Zach, or am I going to keep pouring myself out into the world? And I had the physical limitations actually forced me to make that decision. And so I never would recommend burnout or a a complete mental physical fall apart, to anyone. But that was what happened to me once. Hence, from that, the the sense of I am going to make different decisions.
Zach Manntai:
I'm going to learn how to say no so that my family and those that are dearest to me do not lose me or suffer. My wife jokingly, but not jokingly, says, on my tombstone, it'll say something akin to, if not me, then whom? And there is a truth behind that that says Zach is known for being the one that you call upon and will always be there for you. I will pour out myself for you. And yet Wendi he's done that to a point of death, what good is he? And so if that's a shift that I have over the last number of years, the real answer is learning to say no. And to say busy is not healthy. Busy is not where I want to be. That self exploitation cannot continue. The phrase, don't forget to put the mask on you first, that they say in, on every airplane has to be the way that especially those of us that are in the helper kind of world have to remember.
Zach Manntai:
And so when we do that well, we can continue being a force for good, a a force for health and change in our nation Yeah. Because we've paused, because we've Sabbath. A friend of mine is working on her her doctoral dissertation all on Sabbath. And this beauty of sitting back and saying, this is core to who we are called to be. The the Genesis story starts with the creation of time and sacred rhythms, And one of those sacred rhythms is Sabbath. And so saying, no, I'm not going to do that good thing that I encourage you to continue chasing after. Good on you. But for me, I will not be able to participate because I need margin, I need space, allows you to handle the things.
Zach Manntai:
When when something significant happens, you don't boil over.
Johan Heinrichs:
We'll be right back with our conversation. Now back to the conversation. So have you determined what you say no to? Me being a list guy, I like my formulas. Kinda what's your process? What goes through your head where you find that balance between meaningful and busyness?
Zach Manntai:
So sometimes, it's literal I don't have room to my calendar. That is probably the first thing that that I'll say. It's like yesterday, like, literally right now, somebody invited me to an event that they felt that my voice and my lived experience and the things that I'm good at would bring value to this conversation. And they were like, hey, Zach, could you be here tomorrow? And do you know what my answer was? No. Thank you. I appreciate that. It sounds like a really good thing to be a part of, and I appreciate your invitation and thinking of me. I can't participate.
Zach Manntai:
I'm sorry. I don't have capacity right now. Now. Another thing is by actually putting in my calendar. A lot of new technologies are coming out that help trying to actually help us be more busy. I'm using them to help me be less busy. I'm I'm saying these are blocks in my calendar. If you wanna have a meeting with me, if you wanna set up a a consultation, if you want my expertise in a professional way, here's my availability.
Zach Manntai:
If that doesn't work for you, I'm sorry. I can't help you. And by doing that, again, there's a part of this that's privileged where it's like I'm not working a blue collar job. I'm not at a job nine to five, Monday to Friday, working my butt off, and then having to come home and take my kids to soccer or hockey and be involved with church and and and. I'm actually saying in practice, I have had the privilege of being able to say, no. I don't need you to show my identity as valued, and therefore, I can say no to you without having to feel like that. So that that's the first one. Like, literal time management.
Zach Manntai:
There's a a gentleman by the name of Sean Blanc. He's a he's a great guy. He's done a lot of work on focus. And one of the things that he really pushes for is deep work. In an economy where our skill sets sitting at a computer are just as valuable as the ones at the guy at the garage, We have a different requirement set upon us. And so, like, I have the ability to say, my emotional and mental energy ex exerted means I'm exhausted at the end of this piece, and I'm gonna take time. I'm gonna have Sabbath in my rhythm. I'm gonna do that.
Zach Manntai:
And so that's the first piece. The second one is is actually a lot more nebulous. So I'm sorry. There's no easy list answer. It's who are the people that I'm wanting to invest in most, and how does this affect them? So for me, in my neighborhood, we're working on a youth mental health and addictions project called Planet Youth. It's a collective action coming together, everybody putting their skill set into a project. And as a father of teenagers and as someone who thinks about these kinds of things as important, because it's directly connected to my children and their future and their livelihood and their friends in my, neighborhood, I'm involved in that. And so I'm helping lead this community action team.
Zach Manntai:
And so I've chosen to do that. But there's also food insecurity and new Canadians that are coming into our neighborhood. And Wendi and and and so I had to start saying no to things that were tangential to my family because my family was the beginnings of how I build community. So does it affect the people that matter most to me? And then if I have time, what else? Okay. So my neighborhood, my community association, those are things that in my personal life, I give time to. But I had to have capacity first, and then it had to factor into who does this touch most. Now for some people, that might be, a people group. Maybe it's not my immediate family that I'm thinking about.
Zach Manntai:
Maybe it's a faith community. Maybe it's a an cultural group or an ethnic group that is focusing all of my energies towards that kind of thing. You just have to decide that people group that matters most to you and where you're gonna put your time and energy, and then look for opportunities to be a blessing into those spaces. And so to me, those are the two questions. Do I have capacity? And then who am I wanting to best serve?
Wendi Park:
Yeah. And to counter that, the the question that raises in my mind is that when there is a person at the street corner that is hungry, when there's a youth aging out, when there's a family in crisis that doesn't fit my schedule, when there's a a a young adult that needs a home, that doesn't fit my schedule, that interrupts what my rhythm and my priorities are, then what? Because one of the things that I I'm facing, and I hear what you're saying, and I I agree with that, but then there's also the other realities that we're seeing so many needs that we have the privilege to say no to that other people don't have the privilege of their circumstances. And so when does the circumstances in that community mindset rather than individual mindset, when does that break in and take precedence even when it interrupts our schedule, even when it interrupts what churches would say, oh, we have programs we don't have time for, and these things within our community. Not that they should churches should say yes to everything, but countless times, people say, that I that's really nice, but it's I just I I can't, because we have so many programs. Can we talk to that, that tension of those who have privilege, to say no to, myself included, to those interruptions, those invitations that are begging a response from somebody in crisis?
Zach Manntai:
I think the the question in some ways is really about that first one. Do I have capacity? And if the answer is no, why is that? What have I said yes to that might actually be harmful to my ability to do that? I try and both my business and my life hold about a 20% buffer of time that can be used when an urgent thing happens that I need to participate in, whether that's a Wendi or a family going through crisis or a more systems level things where it's like, how am I helping thinking about food insecurity or people experiencing homelessness or or things like that where there is a a tangible need at a more macro level within my community that aren't necessarily directly connecting to me. One of the things that I find often there is that, to your point about church calendars and this the busyness of all of these programs is that they're not actually being a blessing in the way that we think they are. And so we need to be really thoughtful about what we have said yes to in the first place. And so by saying yes to all of these things doesn't mean that now my schedule is full and I don't have any capacity, therefore, I get to say no. And I think that you're right to challenge that because sometimes that's the easiest thing to do. If I have a full calendar, I don't have the capacity to say yes to the thing that's right in front of me. And then I can feel justified in saying, I'm overwhelmed.
Zach Manntai:
I have no more left to give. I'm going to walk past this man. And when I think about things like the Good Samaritan, the story is really interesting because the two who walked past him at the beginning have justified reasons for continuing to walk down their path, whether that's because they have somewhere to be, they have religious obligations that prevent them from becoming unclean. All of those things are justified responses to the tangible needs in front of us. But I think what Jesus does in that moment is he challenges the foundational expectations of what the group was doing because all of those things made sense to them. Of course, that person would just keep walking, except when he sends this Samaritan, this outsider, this person who they would have been angry at even just because of their existence is the one that seeks to be a blessing, who does take time out of their, perhaps, busy schedule to be a blessing in that moment, he takes this whole thing and turns it on its head. And so my question would be and I had to ask this question of myself. Why am I so busy? One of the things that I had to choose to say no to were some of those church programs.
Zach Manntai:
I was, and if you know me well enough, it fits, I was one of those super volunteers that was giving five to ten hours a week to our church as a lay leader. And there was never a place. I was raised in that culture, though. Whenever the lights were on and the doors were open, the Manntai were at church. And the thing that actually pushed me into the worldview that I have today was actually just that. If all I'm good for is building this church structure, building programming and preaching and worship and all of these other good things at the expense of loving my neighbor, at the expense of seeing the need around me and stopping and slowing down as I walk past it? How am I actually being an image bearer of God in in a good way? Am I doing it well? And I think that this is what's hard about this is that the simple answers to an overwhelming dilemma is to do less, give yourself capacity, start small, practice reflection, and then you're done. Except if going back to what you're kind of highlighting here, Wendi, I'm already overwhelmed and full. I can easily then not do the things that actually will create change and aren't actual blessings to the people around
Wendi Park:
me. Yeah. And I think in the economy of God, when we do have that person laying on the side of the road, whatever that represents in our life that we say, hey. I see this, and it's been brought to our attention, whether it's for our invitation to to care for or not, but we're seeing that it may be an actual invitation to get off the hamster wheel. It may be that stick in the hamster wheel that screeches us to a halt. It might upset our day. It might upset our plans and our future in a good way, but I think that's where I'm thinking of Matthew 11 where he says, come to me all who labor and are heavy laden. That's us walking down the road with a big agenda with our Google calendars booked up, and I will give you rest.
Wendi Park:
So there's that balance I I love to hear. Take my yoke upon you. Is it that person on the side of the road or whatever that is representing? And learn from me. This is not a checklist. It's a leaning into God. God, what do you want me to do in this situation? It it's almost like God wants us to depend on him, oh, or depend on each other for that wisdom to learn from him in community.
Zach Manntai:
Yeah.
Wendi Park:
For I am gentle and lowly in heart, and I will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. And I can testify that when God has put a spoke in my will and screeched me to a halt with things that I didn't have time for, that was exactly his mercy on me, and it's interrupted me. It's made me uncomfortable, but it's it's made me say no to the right things I thought were the right things.
Zach Manntai:
Yeah. Well and I think that when you sit in that moment, this might sound like a like a flip flop, but when God has Zach actively showing me where to put my time and I've been leaning into God's voice in a more tangible way, I don't feel overwhelmed and exhausted. I don't feel like I have nothing left to give. And so there is a piece to this where it's like Wendi I'm walking with holy spirit in a way that is truly aware of both the eyes of God on on the world and the places, there is an abundance in both those that come alongside me to to serve and to support, and I don't feel like I'm overwhelmed. I don't feel like I have nothing left to give. But the worst part is when I try and do things on my own, that's when I feel like I am forcing good at the expense of resting in him. And and that kind of language and that motif that that he talks about as the shepherd and and asking us to just come and sit with him, it's hard. Like, my mind goes straight to Mary and Martha.
Zach Manntai:
And it's like the it wasn't wrong that Martha was doing good work in the kitchen. It wasn't wrong that she was doing these things, but especially because of her heart towards Mary in that moment where Mary is just sitting at the feet of Jesus and just saying, I want to be close to you. Martha's response to that is the problem. It's the busy seeking of of validation through acts and all of these things that that actually Jesus is calling her out on. It's like, but why won't you just come and sit with me? Like, don't be mad at her. Don't don't judge her harshly for this. Know that she is seeking to be with me. And I think that when we do spend time pausing, sabbathing, like the throughout the Psalms, you see the word that is translated salah, pause.
Zach Manntai:
It's meant to be a part of the rhythms. Going back to Genesis, like, this is why the cyclical nature of of creation exists is to show us there is a time for this and a time for this and a time for this and a time for this. And pauses, Sabbath are key to making sure that there is a healthy way for us to say, I'm not overwhelmed and I'm not bad or wrong for just sitting here and soaking in his presence. And when I see the need to not put precedence on the tasks that I have on my to do list because being a blessing is the call on every single one of us. We are called to seek the restoration and reconciliation of all creation back to Christ. And if that's who we are called to be, then truly being a follower of Jesus means that in that moment, seeing the need and being able to take ourselves out of maybe our busy highway world and pausing and slowing down. And in doing that, needing to have had the capacity in the first place. Learning how to say no.
Zach Manntai:
Learning how to say, I'm not gonna just doomscroll and watch twenty four seven news and feel like I can't do it all. But sitting back, a good friend of mine and I, we're gluttons for punishment in this world. Again, I'm not speaking out of, a sense of arrivedness. I'm I'm reminded of Paul, like, it's not like I've figured this all out. I'm I'm still in this race with you. But that when I am healthy, you'll more likely see me reading fiction. Why is that? It's because I'm healthy enough to slow down and do something considered frivolous, enjoying a good book that isn't about business development or isn't about social change for justice. It's a fantasy book where I get to escape for a moment and just be present in a world that isn't chasing me or calling me to chase it.
Zach Manntai:
And being able to do that in a healthy way, that speaks to my health, and it speaks to my ability to say I can breathe better. I I'm more healthy now, and therefore, I can do these things.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. I think you've answered one of the questions that I had in this conversation of, a practical step, and I think you've identified it so well, is that when we stop and when we Sabbath, that's when we can look at our dashboard, not coming out of formulaic, I'm gonna do this, this, and this, and almost make Sabbath part of our busy schedule. But out of a sense of rest, we start off our week in that or we start off our day in that that posture of Sabbath. We can actually pay attention to our dashboard. We can actually learn from him for his yoke is easy. We can actually lean in and say, okay, god. What is it? And so that when interruptions come our way, we're in a posture of receiving and learning. Do you think that busyness, the act of being so scheduled and full and glorified in in busyness, is really a drug of choice? And and that's not just for the world, but within the church.
Wendi Park:
Busyness can be a drug of choice. And we almost needed Sabbath is kind of detoxing from that possibly.
Zach Manntai:
So for me, I think especially when I think about the population size of the Earth and I think about the increases in technology, what we have created is a like sociologists will talk about how dopamine hits from technology beeps and notifications and doom scrolling and this constant feed of information have created a, a brokenness in us where we don't actually know how to slow down and how to be bored, how to connect with people right in front of us. Because these amazing technological marvels and this massive amount of humans all around us content creating all the time, they're a facsimile for connection. And so busyness and this overabundance of twenty four hour news cycle and social media create a really easy out that actually harms our ability to to be present and pause. And it exacerbates the busyness expectation of everything Zach KPIs and measurement. Everything is measurement from an economics perspective.
Johan Heinrichs:
If you talk to a person working in a nonprofit,
Zach Manntai:
even though they perspective. If you talk to a person working in a nonprofit, even though they know that the social connection between humans is a difficult, almost intangible thing that you can't easily measure, you need to create a a measurable out of it so that you can go to your funders, you can go to these things. And so no matter what industry you're in, no matter what space you find yourself, the drive from an economic lens for more and faster and busier and bigger, they percolate into our relationships. And for me, I think that this is one of those cancers Zach, actually, it's funny. I never as we're talking this through, I'm like, that is what cancer is. It's when a cell doesn't know what its life cycle is. It doesn't know the the end. Go back to that rhythms kind of thing.
Zach Manntai:
A cycle is is meant to have a beginning and an Wendi. And, the busyness cycle of life is just this constant churn, this constant noise. And we don't actually have those pauses like Sabbath, like a moment of just sitting in the spaces that we have and saying, I have nothing to do right now, and that is okay. This is good. I don't feel the need to perform. And I think when we keep coming back to measuring ourselves at these not human scale things, it it continues to put pressure on us to to be happy, expected to say, yeah, Johan. I'm just busy right now. It's good.
Zach Manntai:
Rather Johan, it's busy right now. Something has to change.
Johan Heinrichs:
That's really good. I know there's a ton of things for me to chew on, and we can get into this a lot more. And we're actually gonna have you on again in this series a few more times. But we need to wrap it up here. Do you have one thing our listeners can walk away with today that they can implement into their week to be less busy?
Zach Manntai:
So the problem is giving them a task to make them less busy is kind of counterproductive. But but I would actually recommend something as simple as walking around your neighborhood, your village without your phone and doing it intentionally looking and listening. There's a practice in the urban development space called the Jane's Walk. And so one of the things that we did for the Our City Calgary conference last year in in my station was we went for effectively a Jane's Walk in my neighborhood, but through a more spiritual lens. You may be familiar with the practice of Lekta Divina. It's a sense of sitting and listening to a passage of scripture being read, and you listened for both what God is calling you to hear, what do you see, and what do you feel called to do out of it. And we were calling the people who were walking with me to do the same for the neighborhood that they were in. And so one of the things that I think grounds us is the people and place that we live in.
Zach Manntai:
And so whether that's your work, maybe that's where you feel called to, whether it's your neighborhood, your physical home, whether it's some other people group, I would say go for a walk there without distractions and just listen to the stories, listen to the words, listen to the sounds, and do it in a way that is a pause. It's a salah. It's a break in your morning, in your day, in your evening. Go for a walk without distractions and just listen. And I think that that's a good practice to have because that's when I started seeing and hearing things in my neighborhood that actually called my attention to maybe this is where I should be putting some more of my time, which meant that I had to take it away from somewhere else.
Johan Heinrichs:
That's great. And then and Wendi and I are actually gonna unpack a lot of what you said today. Next episode, we're we're doing every other episode. We're calling it second thoughts where we get to actually digest some of the stuff that we're hearing from our guests, rather than going on to the next guest. We really wanna put this stuff into practice. So I know, Wendi, you're going on a bit of a vacation, so you'll have time
Wendi Park:
to practice. Homework here, guys. I I'm not the expert at not being busy, but I'm going on holidays to tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to our next episode. I'm gonna tell you what it means to pause, get off the the rat race, and and actually take in some of the stuff that we've been talking about doing it and looking forward to continuing this conversation in next Friday.
Johan Heinrichs:
So thank you so much for joining us, Sec.
Zach Manntai:
My pleasure, guys. And, I think this is important for all of us. Like you said, Wendi, we're we're all in this together. We each have our own cross to bear, so to speak, and we have to learn from each other about ways that we can step out of the busy and and try and hold space for where God is actually calling us to be and who we are.
Wendi Park:
Appreciate you, bro.
Johan Heinrichs:
So this is the time in the show where we do our segment called Care lingo.
Wendi Park:
Alright. The first of our Care lingo segment where we take the mystery out of some insider language you might hear, from us or other people in caring communities. And our phrase today is compassion fatigue. Now before we give the real definition, Johan, I'm just wondering if we could play some balderdash here a little. And if you were to hear, the word compassion fatigue for the first time, what might you think it means?
Johan Heinrichs:
I gotta think about that. And you mentioned balderdash. I just played with my youngest daughter this weekend, and she absolutely kicked my butt. So she might be the better person to have on to do this.
Wendi Park:
I know the apple doesn't fall far
Johan Heinrichs:
from the tree. Oh, it might be fun to have more people on this segment anyway. You know, once we get some momentum going and and we get those words out there on the on the Facebook CareImpact podcast group.
Wendi Park:
Yes. You
Johan Heinrichs:
know, so might other people getting involved. Maybe there's words they don't
Wendi Park:
oodles of Christianese words. Oh my goodness. Do we have balderdash to play? My goodness. We start talking weird, don't we?
Johan Heinrichs:
And I'd like to hear what people's definitions are, what they think they might be. Anyway, compassion fatigue. We're getting back to the word. Right?
Wendi Park:
Yes.
Johan Heinrichs:
I would say as someone hearing the term for the first time, it's it's what happens when you spent too much time in a room full of empathetic people who just won't stop talking about their feelings. Ew. You know, you start to feel drained. And every time someone says, how does that make you feel? You just want to crawl into a hole and die. It's the emotional equivalent to too much small talk at a dinner party where I just want to scream, I'm fine, but no one's listening. That may be what I'm thinking. Maybe that scenario may or may not be something that is a fingernail chalkboard moment for someone similar to me, not me, but someone similar to me. What would you say is the real definition
Wendi Park:
without it? Your definition makes me fatigued already because I I'm with you. I'm like, oh, too much feelings. Let's get into action. I I do like feelings, but where are we going? But the actual definition of compassion fatigue happens when caring for others starts to feel emotionally draining, like, where we've been expending expending our energy and our our care and our compassion towards others, caring for very real and needed spaces. However, we're finite creatures. Right? And so it's like your heart gets tired from carrying the weight of other people's struggles. And without some good self care, soul care, and rejuvenation, we can easily get into a a case of burnout. So compassion fatigue, when not cared for, can lead to burnout.
Wendi Park:
And you'll see that common, and this language is often talked about among caregivers, foster parents, adoptive parents, parents in general, and frontline workers, social workers, church ministry leaders who are giving a lot of their compassion towards others. Does that make sense?
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And we talked about it a little bit with Zach, I think, too. So this gives it a little bit more context and a definition. So, again, listeners, I Manntai encourage you go to our CareImpact podcast group on Facebook at the on the CareImpact page, and you can suggest new terms or phrases or even definitions if we post them. So, yeah. First Care lingo segment. Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our community, visit journeywithcare.ca, or find CareImpact on just check the show notes for these links and all the links related to this episode.
Johan Heinrichs:
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