Second Thoughts | Why We Can’t Stop Hustling
The Cost of Indifference Series: Episode 2
Previous episode with Zach Manntai: https://player.captivate.fm/episode/2a660b83-77b0-4d59-acbe-47733f414617
Do you ever feel like you're endlessly hustling without knowing why?
Wendi Park and Johan Heinrichs delve into the intersection of productivity and life's mission, especially after Wendi's contemplative trip to the Cayman Islands. They tackle the struggle of disconnecting from busyness and the importance of establishing personal rhythms and boundaries. Emphasizing community support, they highlight the necessity of saying no and creating space for deeper relationships amid life's demands.
CareImpact Podcast Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/19rkPGbD7C/
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Wendi Park:
When people always talk about rhythms, I feel it's a bit of Christianese rhetoric here, and I don't get it. Can I be that honest? I've been a Christian all my life, born and raised. I'm not sure I get what rhythm means. What does it mean to you? Because it means a lot to a lot of people.
Johan Heinrichs:
But, I mean, you're not a musician, so.
Wendi Park:
I don't have rhythm. That's why.
Johan Heinrichs:
This is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact, where curious Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life stories and honest conversations. Conversations. Have we mistaken productivity for purpose? Maybe the real work isn't in doing more, but in learning how to stop. Hey, this is our first second thoughts episode. Wendy, so what are we doing here? Like, why is this a little bit different than our interview episodes?
Wendi Park:
Well, we wanted some time to reflect on some really good nuggets that we discussed last week. And. And I think there's a lot there that I would love to chat with you. There's some things that have been reoccurring in my mind since our conversation that we want to invite our listeners in.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And you just got to put some of this into practice by going on a fantastic holiday.
Wendi Park:
Oh, I did. Yeah. We just came back from Cayman Island. Oh, what a treat. We got to visit with some friends and gotta put some practice into what does it mean to rest and get off this crazy schedule we've been on.
Johan Heinrichs:
I think the term you used in our last episode is getting off the hamster wheel.
Wendi Park:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs:
And that's the episode that we record with Zach Manti, and that's what we're talking about today. A little bit hijacked by busy, overbooked, and under connected. So, Wendy, did you get off your hamster wheel on this trip? Zach gave us a challenge to go on a walk and don't listen to anything, stay disconnected, and just listen and hear the things around you sort of thing.
Wendi Park:
Well, I'll be real with you. After we recorded that, I was basically going, going, going. If anything, I sped up to slow down because anybody out there knows how much work it is to go on holidays, especially when you're leaving kids or other responsibilities at work behind. So I basically ran onto the tarmac, packing my bags right before we had to leave. I sat down, buckled in, and you know. You know that feeling when you're like you've checked in, you've gone through security, you're sitting in your spot and you're just leaving the tarmac, the wheels are just coming off the ground, it feels like heaven. So I will say that at that moment, I detached from this world, figuratively and literally. And I had a really good time, but my mind still kept going.
Wendi Park:
I was still thinking of projects and my kids and this, that and the other thing. I was still texting some things just so that I could unwind. It took a few days, I'm not gonna lie.
Johan Heinrichs:
And I think that's one of the challenges that we've talked about even in the past, is sometimes we're at our best and most productive when we're on those holidays. I know, like when we were on winter holidays, we were still texting back and forth these ideas because I don't know about you, but I can't sleep at night when I have this idea, even if it's work related and I want to do something about it or I'm going to forget it or I'm going to lose passion for it. And I want to say it when I'm. When it's fresh and at its best. Right?
Wendi Park:
Well, and that's just it, Johan. Like, we have a small but mighty team and we quit our jobs to do this because we're passionate about care, impact and the purposes of equipping the church and helping communities thrive and flourish and care for each other. So when we go on holidays and when we're called into this, it's like, I know we don't have that sense of shoulding into work. Like, we do clearly give ourselves permission to rest and Sabbath and take a break. But honestly, a bunch of innovators on holidays, my goodness. Our creativity ramped up. Our signal feeds were like, hey, look at this idea. And I just had this vision for this and that and we were just.
Wendi Park:
It was kind of fun and refreshing. That's to me is like doing a puzzle by the fireside, just ideating of what could be.
Johan Heinrichs:
But then you get those that are considered non creatives, those are the ones texting you, saying you're supposed to be on holidays. Stop thinking about work.
Wendi Park:
Right? Boundaries are like, ah, don't rain on my parade, don't snow on my Christmas.
Johan Heinrichs:
But I mean, Zach seemed to have like, he talked about rhythms a lot in his episode, how Sabbath should be a rhythm of life and how he says no to things. And he's very tight with his schedule. And there's a lot of aspects to that that I really like and are good for me. But sometimes there's that. There's that little bit of flexibility too. It's like, I want rest, but I Need that rest to be creative so that I can work. And it kind of intertwines. I like to mix the two far too often, probably at the detriment sometimes of my family and wife are saying, why don't you stop working? It's like, well, my mind's actually always working.
Johan Heinrichs:
This is just kind of. This is what I do.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. And I think there's different forms of rest. There's one like laying on the couch and sleeping on a Sunday afternoon. And that's okay. I'm not a napper myself, but I don't live off a lot of sleep. Like I. Biologically, I have generations that we are high octane and that's how we thrive. But we do rest in conversations around the table, going for walks, doing things creative, imagining things together and designing things.
Wendi Park:
Like there is a sense of rest. And I'm not trying to like bypass the idea, Wende, you're just trying. You're a workaholic and you're trying to justify that next sip of drink. Right, I get it. And there is that too. But personality wise, I think we have to look at how has God created us in the image of God? And what does rest look like for us? And to be honest, I'm going to be very honest with you, Johan. When people always talk about rhythms, I feel it's a bit of Christianese rhetoric here. And I don't get it.
Wendi Park:
Can I be that honest? I. I've been a Christian all my life, born and raised. I'm not sure I get what rhythm means. What does it mean to you? Because it means a lot to a lot of people.
Johan Heinrichs:
But I mean, you're not a musician.
Wendi Park:
So I don't have rhythm. That's why. Ouch. Yes, I get it.
Johan Heinrichs:
I mean, I am a musician, so I understand rhythms. So teach me, understand the neat. Like Zach even mentioned Salah. So that rest in the middle of a psalm. Right. You have the rhythms of Sabbath and rest, and that's all part of life. And that's kind of the rhythm of life going in and out, breathing in, breathing out. And I understood a lot of that.
Johan Heinrichs:
And it. Okay, I don't always act upon that. We're not harping on Zach at all because he has so many good things to say.
Wendi Park:
Oh, absolutely.
Johan Heinrichs:
And man, I walked away from that conversation and I was jealous of those connections that he made with other people because he was able to say no and have those rhythms. It's like, man, I want to make connections with people at a deeper level. And he's Found a way to do that. And for me, I'm like, I want to find a way to do that myself.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. I really loved his example in the cul de sac of where he took time to bring out his coffee machine and it became something that the community longed for. They came out very unstructured time, unhurried time. And so in that light, and thank you for educating me, the non musician. I get it, and I resonate with that. I don't push back on the idea of it, but I just don't have any rhythm. I'm a Mennonite offbeat. I can't even dance.
Wendi Park:
I guess where I get uneasy with people's kind of strict, almost sacred sense of saying no to things, if I'm honest, is that sometimes we've blocked out the other at the detriment of those that don't have the privilege of saying no or yes to certain things. They are in a predicament where they just need the support of community. And yet who am I to say no all the time? I get that I can't help everybody, but we've compartmentalized a lot. Like, nope, this is my volunteer time. This is my church time. This is my family time. And we've sort of made it idolatry, these different compartments. And if you look at it, by definition, that's secularism.
Wendi Park:
And I think the church has sometimes endorsed secularism, compartmentalize of this and that. And we've celebrated saying no more than we've celebrated the sacrifice and suffering and presence and learning to trust God for that rhythm. Now I understand it better. Thank you. To breathe in when I take in kids. And I don't know if I have margin, but God has clearly interrupted my schedule and really put a spoke into that hamster wheel I was on and halted that for something that I didn't have time for. God has given me breath in that time. And it's not a permission to be unfaithful or uncaring.
Wendi Park:
Does that make sense?
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah, I think so. And like you said how hard it is to say no. Zach talked about how saying no to things so that you can have deeper connection with people around you. But the thing is, sometimes those things on our calendar, those things that demand our attention, are things that will give us connection with other people. Like, there's things that. There's people at church that want to do stuff and you want to have connection with them, and there's family events, and you want to have connection there. But there's only so many hours in your Schedule. So you need to say no to those things which give connection.
Johan Heinrichs:
So there's a balance there. Trying to figure that out.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. I've been teaching my kids and now my grandkids, we have this thing going, actually. My dad taught me, how do you say no to drugs? And then they shout out. And I did. As a child, it's like, no. They'll say, how do you say no to drugs? No. But we could say that. How do you say no to programs? How do you say no to the expectations and the adoration of others? No.
Wendi Park:
Easier said than done. And there I would get on the no bandwagon 100%. I say yes far too easy. Just because of the expectations and not necessarily out of calling or out of connectedness, but out of obligation. And I wish I could declutter. And sometimes I do. I'm getting strategies even in my calendars, how to declutter. So I create margin and space to say yes to the things that I'm actually called to.
Wendi Park:
And not feeling bad about it.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And actually we put a poll on our Care Impact Facebook group page on. On Facebook. And the question was, what's the biggest reason you stay busy? And the options were too much to do, not enough time. The second one was hard to say no. Third one, I feel more productive when I'm busy. Fourth was, it's just a habit. I don't even think about it.
Johan Heinrichs:
And the last one is, I don't. I'm as balanced as a balance. So we tied with hard to say no. And I feel more productive when I'm busy. And honestly, I think I'm kind of tied myself between those two. I find it hard to say no. And I do feel more productive when I'm busy. And we talked about last week how I wear busy as a badge of honor.
Johan Heinrichs:
Sometimes it's people ask how you're doing. I'll often say, oh, I'm busy. And as if that's a good thing. And I'm really trying to.
Wendi Park:
It's just how we're conditioned.
Johan Heinrichs:
But I really do want to adjust that. And it bothered me that that's what I say. That's my default. I really like how our co worker Tim put it. He's been on the podcast before. He says, instead of talking about how busy you are, it might be full of good things. So then you say, I'm full rather than busy. It's like, oh, I'm full, meaning you're doing meaningful things.
Johan Heinrichs:
You're giving your time, not just to busyness and pointless tasks and I'm a task oriented guy. But I really want my life to be full with the things that are meaningful.
Wendi Park:
Don't you think though that in recent years, in our lifetime, this is aging us a bit already? But it's only accelerated. Like with the instant, like thumb scrolling and the instant ads and the bombardment of media and just the how efficient our phones are in coordinating and communicating with so many people. We are accessible all the time that it's accelerated. Like I find. So I was sitting on the beach just last week, having a good time. I honestly, I went snorkeling. I saw two stingrays and I saw. I swam with a shark, which is kind of freaky, but fun for a prairie girl.
Wendi Park:
And I saw beautiful golden fish. But I come back to the beach and it's so easy to. I couldn't even puzzle without listening to a podcast. And I couldn't just sit there and color or journal without having some music on. Like, it feels like more productive of a time off. I wanted to cram in my, my holidays and do so much and I'm like just sitting in silence is kind of hard.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah, that's really hard for me to. I try to go on walks every day because I work in my basement and there's no windows and I would be pretty sad if I didn't get outside. So I try to go on daily walks, but my habit is always to listen to a podcast on my walk. And I kept hearing Zach's voice in the back of my head. You know that listener challenge. Go on a walk. Don't listen to anything but your surroundings. But for part of my walk, I walked by a highway and I don't want to listen to cars zipping by.
Johan Heinrichs:
I want my noise canceling headphones on and I want to listen to something that is going to engage me, that's going to keep me interested in my walk. As if nature itself isn't interesting. So I find that hard. And I really did try to take 20 minutes of one of my walks this week.
Wendi Park:
Good for you.
Johan Heinrichs:
Do nothing but listen. But all I can hear are the thoughts in my head and those ideas and. Which might not be a bad thing.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. And I think we just kind of have to lean into the moment and what is God asking of us? Sometimes he wants us quiet. Sometimes we are filled by music and other ways that God speaks through those. Those moments. Sometimes it's through a conversation. Will we stop having a conversation? Sometimes it's those very interruptions of stopping to talk to a neighbour that has Been life giving. Yeah. And Zach personally, like I've known him for several years now and he will personally keep me accountable sometimes.
Wendi Park:
He knows that I am a busy person and he is too. So it's like right back at him. But he will like make sure that I and keep me accountable to like slow down and not do it all and say, are you taking care of self? So that self exploitation that he mentioned was something that has been a reoccurring message that him and I have been keeping each other accountable. Are we giving of ourselves to the detriment of ourselves, even though it is good? And can we not be always in those places of being so required that our absence is actually a gift too? Right. Where not everything, our family, our ministry, our church, our community is reliant on an individual that when Jesus got away, society didn't collapse. He was refilled and he refueled and was able to be present in those times. He was called to be present in community. And so that's something that I'm personally challenged to do.
Wendi Park:
Not feels too important on my schedule.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah, I tell this to my daughter all the time because she is busy. Like she's taken all AP classes in grade 11, she's involved in two youth groups and she wants to do all these other extracurricular things, yfc, working out and all these things. And I tell her it's okay to say no to good things. Yeah, I have to keep telling her that. And when I tell her, I tell that to myself because I know I have trouble with that too. But she still doesn't say no because they're all good things. And she's like, but look at the opportunities this is going to get me in the years to come. And I'm just going to hustle hard in this time of my life so that the payback in the years to come are going to be greater.
Johan Heinrichs:
That's the way she's thinking.
Wendi Park:
Well, and maybe it's also a personality thing too. Some people are more self preservation focused of like I only have this much reserve, so I'm gonna, I'm. They're much more disciplined and they have that edge of being able to tell they know what's on their dashboard, how much they can handle. I don't have a dashboard. I don't have self preservation. The things I say yes to. Like now I'm getting better at it and I, I'm knowing to say no things. I'm really not called to the doily club.
Wendi Park:
Okay. So don't ask me for doilies and don't ask me to bring home baked cookies to class. I'm just going to say no. I'm good at saying that. But the things I do say yes to, Johan, are things I'm really passionate about. And I'm a passionate person for a lot of things. And it's there that I'm like, ooh, I don't know when I've taken on too much until I've taken on too much. Do you get into those habits or what are the things that you say yes to because you want to, but then you're like, oops, I over committed.
Johan Heinrichs:
I'm a very regimented schedule guy. I mean, like Zach, he has a schedule too, so if it doesn't fit in a schedule, he just says no to it. I tend to make less room for some other things on my schedule so I can say yes to more things, which isn't a healthy balance and something I need to work on. But you talked about accountability. Is that what it takes for people like us that like to say yes to things? Does it require that spouse or that person in our life that keeps us accountable to our schedule? I don't have a good rhythm in having someone keep me accountable. My wife will check up on me.
Wendi Park:
Sometimes, but, yeah, not in like a programmatic way. I think so often we want to franchise a methodology and write a book and say, this is how you do it. And I'm like, there's so many ways to go around it. But I think what you're getting at is the need for community. Accountability is just a fancy word of being present with others and them having permission to speak into your life. And I think we can only be accountable to the level that we're vulnerable. I can be accountable to a certain level, but not let people access the inner beings of my heart. And I have to give people access to be part of my community at a deep way, not just in a superficial way, and.
Wendi Park:
And inviting people to have that permission in my life to. To say, wendy, you've taken on too much, or I'm gonna take this off your plate right now. Or like our friends, we're gonna send you to this island right now because you need a break. They weren't wrong, and they did it in a loving way. And they received us with hospitality in a loving way. And I received that because they're like, you have taken on a lot and we want you to come away. It wasn't. If you're gonna take a break or go on a holiday, they're like, you're going on a holiday, and we're gonna help you get there.
Wendi Park:
Those are the people in our community. Not everybody's gonna send you to an island, but those are the people in our community that can speak into our life and say, wende, come sit down. Take a deep breath. I need those people in my life.
Johan Heinrichs:
Sounds like I can use some more friends too.
Wendi Park:
But I think we actually have to pursue relationships. And this is the thing about being busy. We can be busy with doing things together, with, at the end of the day, not really knowing each other. We haven't given of ourself to each other, and I think it's a wasted opportunity, really. So let's say you and I are excited about a church thing that's happening, and we both said yes. It both fits in our giftings, and we genuinely feel called to it. Great. So we go at it with all our might.
Wendi Park:
We're doing this thing at church, and at the end of the day, we have a product.
Johan Heinrichs:
We.
Wendi Park:
We have an outcome. Yay. But if we have not done it in relationship, in community, with each other, we have gypped ourselves. I haven't gotten to know you, you haven't gotten to know me. We haven't been able to speak into each other. We haven't been able to edify each other. We've just created a product, and I think that's a warning to the church or to people that love to be busy in the process. Are you also building relationships with those you're serving with? And particularly if we're serving many people in the community, are we with the people? I was talking to a pastor once, and they're like, yeah, we have a soup kitchen.
Wendi Park:
But the problem is none of our volunteers actually want to be with the people. It's easier to give a can of soup. And they were being busy, but they weren't being vulnerable with each other. They weren't sitting with people who are actually needing more than that can of soup and that loaf of bread. And so it's how we're busy that will be life giving.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. I think that's almost a good way to wrap it up. Like, even thinking about looking at your schedule and the things that you're busy with, are there opportunities for you to make a connection with the people in those activities? We're in the season of life where we're glorified taxi drivers for our kids. They need rides everywhere every night, and it becomes a chore, right? Like, yeah. But if you think of it as a chore, you're not going to enjoy driving your kids and you're going to miss it on that connection time. It's like, wow, I actually get to sit beside my daughter for half an hour uninterrupted in the vehicle. So can I use that as a time of connection rather than another chore? It's like, sure, this busy is my schedule, but it's now busied with something I can enjoy and find connection with. I think we need to look for more of those things in our schedule.
Wendi Park:
And I think that'll be actually life giving as well. So it's not always just expending out for that other while we're doing it and we're, we're praying. We're, we're being with other. Like yesterday I was driving one of my kids to school. Same thing. Did I have time for it? Not really, but it was a time of connection like you said. And while I was waiting for them to come out, I was able to pray for them. And it was life giving.
Wendi Park:
I felt enriched. I felt so grateful for those times that we could have missed just being busy.
Johan Heinrichs:
Let's end it there and we'll give our listeners the challenge this week. Look for one of those times where you feel it's busy in your schedule, but you can make a personal connection with someone and make it life giving to you rather than life sucking. Okay, so if today's conversation stirred something in you or if you have thoughts on Zach's episode, hey, we'd love to hear Reflections. Share your thoughts with us on the Care Impact podcast group on Facebook or you can reach out to us directly. You can check the show notes for our email address or ways to connect with us. We'd love to hear from you and journey with you. But now it's time for.
Wendi Park:
This is the part of the episode where we take the mystery out of the insider language. You might hear from us or in caring communities. And today the phrase is spiritual bypassing. Johan, if you were hearing the term spiritual bypassing for the first time, what might you think it means?
Johan Heinrichs:
I think I have two definitions I would give it. I think the first one, spiritual bypassing. You know when you try to fix a broken appliance by praying over it instead of calling a repairman. Now, I hate to admit it, but I've probably done this before to vehicles and appliances.
Wendi Park:
That's why I'm laughing, because I've laid hands on my computer on vehicles. It sometimes works. But, but wow, this is cute.
Johan Heinrichs:
But yeah, I think, yeah, if there's any other evangelicals listening that have done something like this. Let us know.
Wendi Park:
And let us know over it.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. Care Impact podcast group. We'd love to hear what happened. Okay, my second definition, it's what happens when you skip church, but tell everyone that you were there in spirit.
Wendi Park:
Wow.
Johan Heinrichs:
Have you done that before?
Wendi Park:
Me? Never. No, I'm always there.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah, you're always there.
Wendi Park:
Yeah, of course.
Johan Heinrichs:
Okay, what does spiritual bypassing really mean?
Wendi Park:
Okay, so let's go for the real definition. For some of you, this might be familiar, but it is actually something that is actually very prevalent all around us here in Canada. It happens when we use spiritual beliefs or practices to avoid dealing with emotional pain or unresolved trauma or tough life situations. It might sound something like, just have more faith or everything happens for a reason or just pray about it. When there's actually tangible ways of responding to real human needs, it doesn't mean that we compartmentalize and we, like, we leave God out of it. It's just like, okay, really, are we going to really bypass this situation? Rather than going into hard emotions or difficult situations, there's often an intolerance within Christian circles of discomfort, and so we want to quickly come up with a cliche type of response to real difficult situations.
Johan Heinrichs:
So it's kind of like sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich? Yeah, yeah, a little bit like that.
Wendi Park:
Yeah. And the church is really good at it, and it actually prevents us from learning. It actually prevents the church from having a growth mindset, individuals from having a growth mindset, saying, you know what? Yes, Jesus is good. Yes. All these Bible verses that come to mind to respond to it are good and right. Yet how can we sit in the discomfort? How can we learn and grow? And what does God mean and how does God want me to respond in these situations? It causes us to want to be learn trauma care or understand poverty better rather than come up with just these tropes that make us feel good so that we can go on to the next subject. And when we're talking about caring for others, those people that are in hard places, children or elderly, or those in our community, spiritual bypassing can look a lot like just wanting to give really cute answers of, like, we're just going to love them with the love of Jesus. We're not going to like, be equipped or actually hear from their perspective or be aware of what they're coming into our situations, but we're just going to love them with Jesus.
Wendi Park:
And yes, we want to love them with Jesus, but sometimes we need to understand how Jesus would love the individual going through those difficulties, but we don't want to feel those things. We don't want to see those hard, hard situations. In all honesty, we want to quickly get through it. So we'll quickly just like give them a band aid Care and not necessarily what they're looking for. We get the dopamine hit, but the person receiving our career when we spiritually bypass feels bypassed with some pat answers and Christianese.
Johan Heinrichs:
All right, Spiritual bypassing. Well, listeners, if you got a term you'd like us to decode, maybe you heard us say it, or maybe you've heard it said in these circles that we're in, send it our way. We'd love to feature it on a future episode and you can join the podcast group again, Care Impact Podcast Group. And maybe you can give us definitions to some future words that we'll have on there. Anyway, that's all for now. Until next week. Always remember to stay curious. Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care.
Johan Heinrichs:
To get more information on weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our community, visit JourneyWithCare CA or find care Impact on Facebook and Instagram. Or just check the show notes for these links and all the links related to this episode. Share your thoughts, leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in faith and purpose. Together, let's discover how we can make a meaningful impact.
