From Meh to Meaningful | A Cynic’s Guide to Compassion with Troy Lydiate
The Cost of Indifference Series: Episode 3
Description
What drives us to retreat into cynicism, and how can we find our way back to genuine compassion?
This conversation features Troy Lydiate, who eloquently gets into the roots and implications of cynicism. Through his rich insights, Troy challenges the notion of cynicism as a protective mechanism, urging listeners to embrace vulnerability and curiosity. By sharing real-life examples, including his personal experiences in the music industry and working with Apologetics Canada, he illustrates how cynicism often stems from unmet expectations but can be dismantled by fostering genuine human connections and a renewed faith. He even touches on Wes Huff's conversation with Joe Rogan.
This discussion encourages listeners to question their own biases, explore the transformative power of seeing beyond the surface, and reengage with their communities through a lens of hope and compassion.
Time Stamps
[01:00] "Humans of New York"
[03:52] Cynicism in Church Culture
[08:52] Cycle of Idolatry and Downfall
[12:21] Wes Huff and Joe Rogan
[16:14] Reflecting on Judgment and Risk
[17:13] Manifesting Faith Beyond Cynicism
[22:17] Faith Amidst Fear and Miracles
[23:47] Reconciliation through Shared Conversations
[29:16] Living Faith in Action
[32:51] Balancing Experience and Intellect
[35:34] Passionate Perspectives in Apologetics
[38:59] Fostering Conversations Through Active Listening
[42:18] Segment - Care Lingo Apologetics
Guest Links
Troy Lydiate - You can follow his ministerial journey on Instagram at Prairie Boy Troy. For his music, search for "Scribe Music" on any platform or follow him on Instagram at Scribe Music.
Apologetics Canada - https://apologeticscanada.com/
o explore more content from Troy's organization, visit Apologetics Canada's Instagram or check out their website.
-
Troy Lydiate:
Me honoring that person has nothing to do with their perfection. It's me knowing that they've been made in the image of God. And so, just as much as they're susceptible to fail, there's also a very good opportunity for them to actually succeed. And I just want to be one of the people that's there to see.
Wendi Park:
What a cynicism isn't just skepticism. It's self protection. And what if it's not just about doubting others, but about avoiding disappointment? We don't start out as cynical, but if somewhere along the way we get burned, and sometimes it's just easier to stay that way. But what if there's another way? This is Journey with Care, a podcast by Care Impact where curious Canadians find inspiration to love others well through real life stories and honest conversations. It's easy to slip into cynicism. But when it settles into indifference, we risk losing something far greater. It's one thing to question whether something will work, but after a while, if we're not careful, we just stop caring altogether. We hear about another initiative, another big idea, another story of someone trying to make a difference, and instead of engaging, we shrug and think, yeah, good luck with that.
Wendi Park:
I think about Brandon Stanton, the creator of Humans in New York. Before he became a storyteller, he was living in a world that had nothing to do with people's stories. He was a bond trader, staring at screens, watching markets rise and fall, making decisions about things that didn't feel personal. And when you live like that, it's easy to get cynical, easy to believe that everything is just a transaction. And then he lost his job. And instead of scrambling to get back into that same world, he did something different. He picked up a camera. At first, he was just about taking pictures.
Wendi Park:
But the more he stopped and talked to people, the more he realized everyone had a story. Strangers on park benches, people rushing down sidewalks, ordinary faces with extraordinary lives. And the more he listened, the more he cared. And the more he cared, the more he saw. What started as a personal project turned into something so much bigger. A movement that has connected millions of people across the world simply by reminding us that every person has a story worth hearing. And it makes me wonder, what if the biggest change we can make starts by simply choosing to see again? Choosing to care even when cynicism tells us that it's not worth it. So what do we do with that? How do we challenge that part of us that wants to disengage, to assume the worst, to stay in the safety of those cheap seats.
Wendi Park:
That's what we're talking about today because cynicism might feel like wisdom. But if it keeps us from showing up, from believing in good, from actually caring, it's costing us much more than we think. Our guest today is Troy Lydiot, a creative and cultural thinker who has spent years navigating the
Johan Heinrichs:
tension between faith, culture, and compassion. Troy is the creative director at Apologetics Canada and host of the AC Podcast.
Wendi Park:
Troy tackles through tough conversations about faith and meaning in a skeptical world. Under the name Scribe Music, Troy has released four studio albums using his music as a bridge between faith and culture, challenging cynicism, sparking honest conversations, and creating space for hope in a skeptical world. So, Wendy, we're gonna hand it off to you now to get this conversation started.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. I would love to. Cynicism is what we're talking about today. And that's actually, I would say, Canada's unofficial love language, if I dare. Oof. We go there. But, Troy, what's a moment where your inner cynic kicked in hard?
Troy Lydiate:
What's a moment is the the challenge in and of itself. Honestly, I think my where my cynicism has popped up the most is probably when it has come in the realm of certain church culture, I would say, for a prime example. Having people be genuine and having people actually mean what they say. And so for listeners who don't really know me for my music, anyway, I I've been a recording artist for over ten years. And the amount of times I've had different individuals, organizations say, hey, Troy. We wanna work with you. Hey, Troy. We're so excited to having different label representatives.
Troy Lydiate:
And those sorts of people say, hey, man. We really love what you're doing, and we wanna partner with you. And naturally, as a young artist, I'd be like, wow. This sounds amazing. I would love to do something like that. And next thing you know, like, okay. But you just gotta pay this amount of money, and you can maybe be a part of it. Or, hey.
Troy Lydiate:
Sorry. We wanted to do this thing, but it's just not formulating. And it just happened time and time again to the point where now I actively fight against my cynicism whenever a new email partnership comes up, and someone's like, hey. We wanna work with you. And I'm like, do you really? So that that's probably one of the most pertinent examples of cynicism, which is kinda creeping in my life.
Johan Heinrichs:
Well and you are for those that haven't heard, go on to Spotify or wherever. You can Google him for Scribe. You are an amazing recording artist resonating with so many people with my kids included. They were excited that I gotta talk with you. But I I relate to what you're saying, Troy. I I feel that sometimes also people love the innovation, the creativity, the the guts that it takes for my innovative team to do something different in Yeah. Between social services and the church, and they're like, wow. That's so cool.
Johan Heinrichs:
But I don't know if you are a follower of Brene Brown. She has this amazing quote in I think it's the book Daring Greatly. Cynicism and sarcasm are the first cousins that hang out in the cheap seats. They're not the real players on the field daring greatly.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs:
To do the deep work, we have to get through that cynicism, and that goes vice versa. People might also be cynical of, k. Is your music legit? Is that spirit filled?
Troy Lydiate:
Yes.
Johan Heinrichs:
Can we actually work with social services? And and cynicism is so entrenched here. Maybe to to pitch it this way, why do you think cynicism is so tempting?
Troy Lydiate:
Well, I mean, I think when I when I think about cynicism, first and foremost, I think of it as a lack of faith in x, whether it's a person, place, or a thing. A person who, I think, becomes a cynic didn't start that way. And I think it's important to remember that, is you actually become a cynic. You're not born a cynic, whether it is unmet expectations or it is reasonable expectations not met. And that's when a person naturally, when those things are repeated, that's when a person becomes a cynic. They no longer have faith in a person following through Mhmm. Or something coming to pass. And per your question, I think one of the challenges for a person who falls into cynicism is that it actually becomes a comfortable place.
Troy Lydiate:
We become comfortable with cynicism because it helps us build a barrier of protection around us. What's that that term? Aim low. Right? Or how does I I'm not exactly sure how this the saying goes exactly, but it's like if I keep my standards low, then I won't be disappointed. Right? If I aim high and I miss, then there's a greater opportunity for me to be disappointed. And so if I keep my expectations low, then the chances of me getting hurt because someone didn't meet those expectations is far greater. Right? So I've been finding that in order for me to really move past my cynicism, it's actually a call for me to allow myself to be put into the uncomfortable and actually allow people to just be people and and be okay with that.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. I really like that reframe, Troy, because rather than just see cynicism at face value, we are asking the question, what's underneath that?
Wendi Park:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs:
What are we masking? What are we not being vulnerable about? What are we protecting? Maybe for good reason. Your example case in point. There's good reason for it and to not shame ourselves for being cynical, but maybe not glorify it in the Canadian way that we tend to do. It it could be a form of passive aggression of not wanting to deal with the deeper rooted things. And, I think that's something that we really need to take to heart. How would you say cynicism, shapes our culture? Where do you see it prevalent? Even in your your interactions with Apologetics Canada that you're very much involved with, you must be dealing with it on a national scale in many on both sides, on the the faith side and also the secular. Where do you see that shaping our culture?
Troy Lydiate:
Well, I think people are always on the tiptoes of the next catastrophe or the next person falling out of grace. And I think at the core of that is because, one, there's this huge issue of idolatry, like, just across the board. And so we raise people up so quickly that when they fall victim to their humanity, not to minimize what they've done, but when they fall victim to their humanity, we act surprised. Or we're very quick to just take them and throw them out and be like, see, this is what I thought was gonna happen. It's like, okay. So we went into celebrating this person with presuppositions and preconceived notions about what could happen there. It means that there wasn't a real faith that this person actually could be a person of integrity. Right? And you wanna talk about seeing with Apologetics Canada very practically.
Troy Lydiate:
A lot of people have been hearing all this stuff about Wes Huff and everything that Wes Huff is doing. Right? The amount of people that were also watching just, okay. Well, let's see how long this lasts. Well, let's see wait till they find out that. And I'm like, what do we and I have the I have the the beauty of knowing Wes as a friend and a coworker. And you're talking about a guy who didn't ask for any of this. You talk about a guy who was just making content based on his field of study, who's working on his doctorate. The last thing he needed was to be the poster boy for all things apologetics and theology.
Johan Heinrichs:
Right? That's really cool. So do you feel that Canada is just it's a setup waiting for the shoe to drop to expose the humanity of everybody like Cuff?
Troy Lydiate:
I I think so. Because I think there there also is a fear of people actually being genuine and good people. Mhmm. Because we I think honor is a really tough thing for people today because of cynicism. Right? I have a great pastor, and I love honoring my pastors. And some people have asked, like, man, you guys, like, speak really highly of your pastors. I mean, like, they're human like everybody else. I'm like, yes.
Troy Lydiate:
They are. And they're actively pursuing being better people. They're actively pursuing being more integral, being more trustworthy, and ultimately walking out what the faith in Christ asks them to do. Me honoring that person has nothing to do with their perfection. It's me knowing that they've been made in the image of god. And so just as much as they're susceptible to fail, there's also a very good opportunity for them to actually succeed. And I just wanna be one of the people that's there to see it.
Wendi Park:
I wonder if there's people that when they put on a pedestal like that, there's more cynicism that comes out. Like, thinking about Wes again, like, my my eighteen year old son is a huge Wes Huff fan, and this was before Joe Rogan. And then he got put on this pedestal. And then you look online and all the comments, and it's like, oh, well, he didn't say this. He didn't explain this properly. He didn't he wasn't outright preaching the gospel, and that's not what he was trying to do.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. It it and and that's just it. Right? This is where I believe that the big brother cynicism is idolatry. Because I'm not gonna be a cynic towards the Taygo Westhoff situation if I'm not looking for someone to perfect it. Right? If I'm not looking for the person who's gonna who's gonna debunk Joe Rogan like, here's my honest thoughts. If West gives Joe Rogan the gospel, they live in two separate worlds, entirely different worlds. He gives Joe Rogan the gospel, which he did. Joe Rogan, right on his podcast, all of a sudden accepts Jesus Christ as his lord and savior.
Troy Lydiate:
The next question that people need to ask is, now what? Because right now, as we're seeing, Joe Rogan does not have a kingdom minded accountability group that's gonna hold him up, that's going to help walk this this ministry out with him. Are they expecting Wes to do that? So Wes is supposed to forsake his family, the ministry he's a part of, the things that the lord has called him to back home where he lives. And so I don't think a lot of people are paying attention to that. If anything, anyone who may be in Joe's corner after Wes has delivered the gospel has a greater responsibility of men. Wes set it up for us. And look how receptive Joe was at least hearing it. Right? And I think this is why I I I'll say, like, one of the most dangerous things for a person who is living as a cynic is you're actually pulling yourself away from an actual faith and believing people can be good. And if you actually and as a believer, that actually is coming against what scripture is asking of me and telling me.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And and I think it it plays itself out in some very secretive, almost, like, like, in ways that we don't even realize it creeping in. Yeah. Especially when like, at Care Impact, we're all about seeing the church engage in community. Yeah. And social services bridging into that and saying, hey. Maybe there is something still left in the church that we can we can Yes. We can reconcile and work forward in a good way.
Johan Heinrichs:
And it sneaks in as, like, within the church, I hear it as much as I hear it as I just came off a call with government. But we've tried that before Yeah. And what happened historically? Or the government should handle it mentality
Troy Lydiate:
Mhmm.
Johan Heinrichs:
Of, like like, that's not our business. We would have done it better. Or something like, well, maybe a savior complex, like, I would have done it this way. This is how we we as the church are better than. But those are the cheap seats.
Troy Lydiate:
Yes.
Johan Heinrichs:
Those are the cheap seats because it means that we are being safe and not playing the hard game of seeing human to human in that other person
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs:
And and doing the hard work and getting away with it.
Troy Lydiate:
Well, I mean, to your point, I did youth working specifically for two separate organizations, one in in Manitoba, one in Saskatchewan. And one of the things I found across the board was cynicism. Right? Just and I was an honored frontline worker with working in youth. Like, not sitting at the executive level, not sitting at even the director level. Actually, didn't want to work at the director level because I loved being in the mix. One of the the most cynical things I saw was a person would re was just the person opening up the file, opening up that person's file, reading why they were in the the program. Most specifically, you could think about someone who maybe was there because of violence, because something had happened, because they did something in school. And now you're watching you're watching staff members walk into that house, like, guarded.
Troy Lydiate:
I think there's a difference between walking in with wisdom and walking in, like, well, let's see how this goes. I hope he doesn't. And day after day, when you really got to sit with these kids, you realize you know, I coined my own phrase, like, read beyond the file. Like, actually sit when you actually sit with some of these kids and you realize, oh, while I was reading their file, I wasn't seeing the the person in there. Now I'm sitting with this kid, and people are wondering, hey, Troy. How is it that you've had no, you know, incidents? And I'm like, k. Well, first of all, well, that's the Lord. But second of all is because I'm not trying to adjust to their presence according to what their file has told me.
Troy Lydiate:
Because if someone were to open up our file, if someone were to look up all the things I've said, all the things I've done out of my humanity, you'd probably think the same thing. You know? I'm not saying I've attacked anybody, but what I'm saying is we all have a file on us that the lord knows about. And so if we were to really consider that for a moment, thank god that he doesn't look at us cynically. One of the things I I I think the church the church needs to be willing to start taking the same risks that we were asked in the book of Acts. When you read the book of Acts, when you see the original building of the church, it was a risk. The Jews and the Gentiles coming together under the common thread of we saw Jesus. Some of us walked with Jesus. We saw the resurrection.
Troy Lydiate:
That commonality of not only seeing him come to the people of Israel, but walk among the Gentiles and then hang on a cross and then be resurrected, that was their commonality.
Johan Heinrichs:
That is so true because so often we can get the the real twenty twenty hindsight version of flanograph Jesus, and it just kinda plays out. We know how the story goes. But in the moment, the cynicism that people would I'm like, say what? You know, like, are you really for real putting your name to this claim? Are you really gonna proclaim these things? And yet if we're serving the same Jesus and Jesus is still active, god is still active in the everyday, he hasn't left the building. Well, that could be argued. How are we putting ourselves out there in those ways when Jesus in the flesh is not here? How are we manifesting those things in our communities, in our churches? Are we willing to dare and face the cynicism and do it anyway? Because I think it has to come from a hope way beyond what our our culture can provide and then the safety net because there is no safety net in culture. No. No. Each man for their own.
Johan Heinrichs:
It's it's it's dog eat dog in some ways with cynicism, but there's a hope.
Troy Lydiate:
I I I a % agree with you. I when I look at scripture, I'm like, oh, there was a cynic among the 12. His name was Thomas. There was a cynic among the 12. His name was Thomas. Dare I say, you could even go far saying Peter walked in a measure of cynicism. Do I actually believe you are who you say you are? And do I actually believe you're going to do what you said you're going to do? Because after let's take Peter for for example. They've had the last supper.
Troy Lydiate:
Jesus has explained to them what is going to happen. Peter says, surely not. It's like, no. This needs to happen. Okay. Garden Of Gethsemane happens again. Peter is still in posture of trying to protect Jesus, and Jesus has to correct him. Like, no.
Troy Lydiate:
This needs to happen, which means that there was a measure of cynicism and doubt because for the disciples and this era of the gospel, they had seen different messiahs come. They had seen different people come and say, I'm the savior of the world. And they had been, you know, put in prison for it. They'd been silenced, not just by the Romans, but by their own people. And then you move on to Thomas. Thomas was a cynic right until the resurrection, but Jesus met him at his cynicism. He met him and said, put your finger where the holes in my hands are. I'll meet your cynicism with my mercy.
Troy Lydiate:
And I think the church needs to do that as well. There are so many people that walk into our churches every single day. Take the deconstruction movement. I know that's a buzzword. But it comes from a place of, is god really who he says he is? And the reason they have a hard time seeing that is because our churches don't look like who he called us to be.
Johan Heinrichs:
And it's costly. I I think we'd be remiss to say, okay. We should address cynicism. We should look at the root cause. We should be vulnerable and allow us to see the in the other person. That is all good. But let's also realize this isn't just a a feel good. We should stop doing that.
Johan Heinrichs:
Like, I should stop eating that extra brownie that's on the counter. There's actual damage we might have the privilege not to see. Mhmm. But when it comes to vulnerable people that are wounded, that are very vulnerable, not by their choice, but just out of their their position, whether that's way high on a pedestal and they're exposed or way low and hidden in plain sight. Yeah. Those vulnerable people, there's a cost to our cynicism Yeah. That when we're in the the cheap seats with cynicism, there's a a cost that cost them compassion and remediated help interventions. It cost our society all kinds of things.
Johan Heinrichs:
I don't know. Like, where do you see the cost of it? Maybe even working with your youth, you saw the cost of cynicism when the church and other people had a hands off approach.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. I mean, I'm the type of person that still sees and still believes god is doing miracles. And with us walking in this and I really say it. Like I said, cynicism, if you really break it down as a lack of faith in in God and and his word to be real, we wonder why we don't see the miraculous in the same capacity. Yeah. I think it's because we're not looking for it.
Wendi Park:
Mhmm. We're
Troy Lydiate:
actually not looking for it in the day to day. If me waking up today in and of itself, and this is not to minimize the miracles as people say, but me just waking up today is a miracle. Why? Because someone as healthy as me didn't. Mhmm. So the miracle of me resting my head at night, my body going into this REM state and operating by itself with unbeknownst to me, without my house burning down, without something hap some tragic that is a miracle in and of itself. Why? Because that happened to somebody else. I just got off a plane. Just the other day, someone else didn't.
Troy Lydiate:
There's been planes crashing for the last two months. And for me to get on a plane and land, come home and not get in a car accident, it's a miracle in itself that there's clearly things being put in place, and the Lord is just the grace of the Lord is allowing me to see another day. And I find, like, we are missing out on the the beautiful, beautiful walk that we can have with the Lord because we're afraid to we're actually afraid to be let down. Mhmm. But it's because we don't take him at his word. This has kinda been a phrasing that has been, going through our church lately. Like, what would happen if you took God at his word, right, according to his word? What would the church look like if we actually believe he is the way maker, miracle worker, you know, all the songs that we love to sing, all the things
Johan Heinrichs:
that song. Did you know that, Troy? I didn't know that. My husband, and he sings that to me when I I do a lot of work, never stop never stop working. Slightly out of context, but you're speaking to my soul.
Troy Lydiate:
But, you know, I I I find we're actually missing out Yeah. On seeing seeing a miracle in what can be the mundane. And I find that when a person starts appreciating the miracle in the mundane, our day to day stops feeling like such a trudge. Yeah. It feels like an opportunity for something special to happen at any moment.
Johan Heinrichs:
And the miracle that we see in front of us with the person in front of us of who they are, not necessarily their whole resume and the things they have or have not done. I I was talking with indigenous leader in government, this several years ago, and we were talking about, can we work with the church? There's cynicism on that side. And For sure. I deal with a lot of churches that are cynical that we can even be at the table with government, be at the table with reconciliation talks with with indigenous. There's a ton of cynicism if you're looking at that. But she turned to me, and we're having a really neat conversation over a cup of coffee. And she says, you know what, Wendy? This right here, this is reconciliation. There was this glimmer of hope that just got emerged because we saw the Amalgad Day even though we come from different world views, but we were coming together.
Johan Heinrichs:
And those are the miracles. I saw a miracle within her. I saw God in her, and we could've missed that
Wendi Park:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs:
In the ordinary.
Troy Lydiate:
But we have to see that as a miracle. You take this back a hundred years. You take this back sixty years for some of the people that have been living on reserves and in the indigenous community, that not only are you willing to sit with her or him, but they have that position in government. Like, that there that there even is a table.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah.
Troy Lydiate:
Right? And this is one thing that I've been, you know, I've been really trying to work really, really trying to work through is, like, lord, help me not grow familiar with the things that I see every single day. I don't wanna grow familiar with my spouse. I don't wanna grow familiar with my kids calling me dad because there are so many dads who don't have a relationship with their kids, and now they're calling them by their first name. You know?
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah.
Troy Lydiate:
And it probably stings. And I don't wanna grow familiar with it just because it seems like the way it's supposed to be. Well Yeah. Just because that's the way it's supposed to be doesn't mean that it's going to be or that it is. Right? At any moment, the Lord could say, Troy, your time is up. Right? That's that's it. And I don't wanna be found familiar. I don't wanna be found with people being able to have a pulse on me as far as what is Troy hopeful for.
Troy Lydiate:
I want people to know, man, Troy is always pursuing the greater in people, the greater in himself, trying to give people the the gospel, and and, honestly, just literally what our mandate is with with, with Apologetics Canada, just loving God and loving people. Really trying to get it keep the main thing the main thing. And I believe when a person has vision, when an organization has vision, that means no matter what is going on, I can actively fight cynicism when I have a foundation. Mhmm. When I look at this and I say, okay. But is this part of the vision, right, for Care Impact? Okay. This door got closed. This opportunity didn't happen.
Troy Lydiate:
But what did we commit to doing? Okay. If I've committed to doing this and this is what the vision says, then that's actively gonna fight fight against cynicism and you know?
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. You're absolutely right because we've been in it ten years now, and we've seen many different versions of how we express ourselves. Our our mission statement is almost to the same words. But I can say now through trial and fire and innovation that right now, yes, there's maybe some setbacks or discouragement when you you face cynicism. It's just natural. Like, will this church really do they really mean it, or are they just infatuated with me being a risk taker?
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah.
Johan Heinrichs:
But, honestly, I can smile at the face of cynicism now because I know there's something so much deeper. I can't wait to give you the hope for glory. There there is something. This is the hope, that we hold. It's not the only thing. We wanna work with you and in diversity, but we carry something, a mantle that god has given us that is hope filled outside of this world
Troy Lydiate:
Yes.
Johan Heinrichs:
That I can't just wait for the right response to give me a a a different response. This is who we are. This is what we're called to. Yeah. And I feel like that we have lost often in our culture getting back to the the the Canadian culture, this is a broad statement because we we're so many different people and
Troy Lydiate:
For sure.
Johan Heinrichs:
For sure. Perspectives. However, have we lost particular in the Canadian church, we lost our sense of wonder, our sense of mystery, or and apologetics often has had a a bad rap because we're like, we need to, like, put Jesus in a box. We need to know exactly our doctrinal statements rather than wondering. This generation, they need to ask those questions. They need to wonder. And I feel like an antidote to cynicism is wondering and leaning into the mysteries of God that, oh, there's so much more.
Troy Lydiate:
I I believe it's either Ephesians four or Ephesians five. It's funny because I actually just preached a sermon on this. Ephesians five, it talks about one of the towards the end of the passage, it says, and pursue the the things that please God. And it's this converse like, you're seeing this whole interaction that Paul is talking about in living life set apart, living life in holiness. It says, and actually seek after what pleases God. Well, seeking requires curiosity.
Wendi Park:
Mhmm.
Troy Lydiate:
Right? And so exactly what you're saying, if we are no longer curious for the things of God and this is not a universalist statement of saying looking for God everywhere. No. I'm not saying I'm looking for God in a rock or in a speaker. No. But according to his word and his nature, I should be able to see God moving.
Johan Heinrichs:
And nature cries out. Right?
Troy Lydiate:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Right? If I'm curious for God, that means I can walk into a government building, and I could say, god, I pray that you open a door here so that we can fulfill the great commission, so that we can fulfill loving people as you would as you have called us to. So that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm gonna get to go and hold a worship service at parliament in the, you know, in the parliament offices. That doesn't mean that. But what it does mean is that maybe the person that I interact with is actually gonna see that how I practically want to present the gospel is by helping kids in the system. Practically pursuing the gospel is me trying to pour into the community and serve people, opening soup kitchens, doing whatever it takes to, you know, as it as it and take care of the widow, take care of the orphan. That's all in the Bible.
Troy Lydiate:
So I don't need to actually plaster that verse everywhere. I actually get to live it out, and I get to pursue that. But I have to be looking for places, spaces, and people where god has made room for me and where god has made room ultimately for himself because we just so happen to be to get to be the vessels and the carriers, but it starts with curiosity.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And that right there is the cynicism extinguisher to any conversation that could be shut down. How often in government and in other, cross sections of society that we interact with and within churches and denominations, we shut down the conversation of curiosity because we're like, this isn't. And then they there there's this, like, it's a it's a hope killer. Yes. A vision, dyer, and and it really stifles community.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. I mean, the word says my people perish for lack of vision. Yeah. Right? We we've allowed, actually and I was just thinking about this the other day. How does that saying go? Curiosity killed the cat. I grew up in the Prairies. Curiosity actually fed the cat. Like, cure that cat like, I go to my my in law's farm.
Troy Lydiate:
These cats are getting in the barn. They're looking all over the place. They're sneaking in the place. Why? Because there's a hunger, and they're actually trying to find food. So curiosity is actually gonna feed the cat. Right? It's gonna feed the cat, and then you have the amount of stories of people that have found a stray cat, and they've taken them into a home. Like, hey. I found this stray cat.
Troy Lydiate:
Now I'm gonna give him a home. Now I'm gonna give him bedding. Now I'm gonna give him food. And I know this is kind of, like, a fun metaphor, but it's also individuals. How many people have walked into our church is purely out of curiosity. We've had people come to our church just because they heard the music. And in that curiosity, they walked in, and they found people that looked like them. They found a community that looked vibrant.
Troy Lydiate:
They found a community that see seemed very loving and very welcoming. Next thing you know, that person now serving in our community has given their life to the lord and is not turning back. Curiosity fed them.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. I love that. And that's actually one of our taglines or our tagline, Johan. Let's get curious.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah.
Wendi Park:
Or stay curious. Right? Stay curious. So, I mean, we can probably end each podcast with saying, don't be cynical, and they're kinda synonymous, aren't they?
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. Right.
Wendi Park:
And what we're really talking about is lack of connection too. Yes. So when you know an individual and that's why we think stories are so important because when you
Troy Lydiate:
Crucial.
Wendi Park:
Heard someone's story, when you've got to know them a little bit better, it's hard to be cynical about it because you you've heard their experience. It's hard to be cynical from an experience.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. That's right. That's right. The the thing I I would add with experience is even with that experience is just the the door opening. Right? It sometimes we also stop at experience. Sometimes you'll find this in in the, you know, you not just the apologetics world, but then, like, the the Christian world at large where this is your experience, but this is my intellect. Well, god didn't ask you to throw away experience, but he also didn't ask you to throw away intellect. Right? He challenged he challenged both the the like, take the Pharisees, for example.
Troy Lydiate:
He challenged their intellect with the living experience right in front of them. Right? Today, this has been fulfilled in your hearing.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yes.
Troy Lydiate:
So you're hearing me release this word, this gospel, this message as he was I believe he was quoting, the prophet Isaiah at the time. He was reading that scroll. Today, this has been fulfilled in your hearing. And they're like, wait. What what does he mean? Right? You have the intellect. I'm trying to give you an experience with me. And then as far as the disciples, they got an experience with him. Paul had an experience, and then he sent them to get educated.
Troy Lydiate:
There was an equipping that came. That's why he gave the Holy Spirit so that we could be equipped from the experience. And so they walk hand in hand.
Johan Heinrichs:
Oh, I you're you're speaking my my love language here right now because they do need to come together even though even in Christian ministry and church, yes, we love God, but we don't have to leave our our brains at the door. We also don't wanna be brains on a stick. Could they not speak to each other? Yes. Because I feel like there's such an enriching, amount of conversation that can happen. And the amount of times where spiritual bypassing because of just experience, happens because we just talk around it, and rather than reasoning and looking at objective truth. And then on the other hand, we have just the academics and the the the reasoning of it, and we haven't brought it into the everyday. Imagine if we could put those things together. And that's what I see you doing at AP and on your podcast.
Johan Heinrichs:
I'm I'm I'm a a big fan of of your episodes, and you're able to to merge those things together quite intentionally, I imagine.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. And and that's one of the things I love about our team. Right? We have a super diverse team with varying levels of biblical education, but also experience. Right? I come from the the arts world, and and I would never go like, none of us ultimately, none of us would really go and say, hey. I'm an apologist. You know? They can tell us that, hey. You guys are apologist and this sort of thing. It's not us trying to deny what we do or the field that we're in.
Troy Lydiate:
It's just that based on what we are passionate about, we fall into said camp. But as far as for me, I see apologetics through the art world in a way that, say, Wes doesn't. But Wes sees it through biblical scholarship in a way that I don't. And so when we go and have a conversation about art in the gospel, we come together like this. Right? We we're able to have a conversation based off of experience and education, and we're constantly learning from each other. And, like, I get I tell people all the time, sometimes on the podcast when I'm hosting and you hear me go silent, it's not because I don't have anything to say. It's because I get the unique opportunity to sit under someone who's more educated about a specific topic. Where I may have experience, I never would have had the framework.
Troy Lydiate:
I never would have had the the language per se, nor would I may have had the historical background of where my presuppositions might have come from. My ideologies might have come from in the way I'm interpreting scripture. And so when I have an Andy or Wes or Steve talking about transhumanism and all this sort of stuff, I'm like, oh, I didn't know that that's what that I didn't know that's what we would call that. But thank you. Now I can properly exist in this space a little bit more. Like, I don't wanna necessarily say comfortably because that's not the term I'm looking for. Yeah. But I can exist in this space with a better grounding for what not just what I believe, but what they believe.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. And the cheap seats in that hosting situation would be to be cynical Yes. About what they have. Is it really does it line up with my experience rather than being curious and saying, how can I learn from them what they're bringing to this conversation and that you validly have something to offer as well into the conversation, but it's that curiosity? I know we have to to end this conversation, unfortunately. We'd love to have you back sometime.
Troy Lydiate:
Absolutely.
Johan Heinrichs:
But I I would love to, just ask you, what is a challenge that you might wanna give our listeners on the topic of cynicism and what we've been talking about? Is there a challenge that we can put out there for our listeners to consider?
Troy Lydiate:
I don't wanna diminish it to just don't be a cynic. Right. Because it's like, okay. Well, where do where do I start? I would say, have have a conversation with someone without inserting your own opinion first. Mhmm. Ask a question and then and actually just ask it. Like, hey. Why do you like red? This is a prime example.
Troy Lydiate:
Why do you like red? Don't follow-up with, because I see that you wear red a lot, and I heard that when people wear red, x y z happens or x y z is what they believe. Yeah. You've now inserted your own cynicism into the conversation. Yeah. Now this person's response is not just genuinely telling you why they like red. They feel like now they have to defend themselves and diffuse your
Johan Heinrichs:
Right.
Troy Lydiate:
Cynicism. We we've got to stop projecting our cynicism on people and forcing people to have to fight off that in order to have a conversation. So I would say, have a conversation with someone. And I know people can already think of someone you may disagree with or someone whose point of view you're like, I don't know how I feel about it. But ask them the question, hey. Why do you
Johan Heinrichs:
believe stay away from politics because it's a little fresh right now.
Troy Lydiate:
It is a little fresh.
Johan Heinrichs:
As a as a starter, exercise.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. But just genuinely ask them a question that you you wanna know the answer to and just listen. And ask I would say be an active listener in it, but do not insert your opinion into it unless they ask you for your opinion. Because I guarantee you're gonna learn you're gonna learn two things. You're gonna learn one, depending on how the conversation goes, obviously. But you could learn, one, what they believe about that thing. Two, how they came to believe about that thing. And then the beautiful bonus is now that they've asked they've answered your question, them asking you, how do you feel about how I see that thing? Because now you've what you've done is you've organically created a relationship.
Troy Lydiate:
And like we said, relationship Johan, you were saying this relationship actually helps diffuse, cynicism. Because now it's like that phrase, now I got skin in the game. Now I've actually released a part of my heart to you. And if you're actually about to just go stomp on that, that says more about you than it does about them. And that'll show you a lot about who you are.
Wendi Park:
That's amazing. Hey. Before we end this episode, you wanna tell our audience where they can find you, where they can connect with some of your content online?
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. So me, specifically, you can follow me. Kinda my my more ministerial journey is through prairie boy prairie boy troy just on Instagram. If you wanna follow the music, it's just scribe underscore music or scribe music on any platform. For my organization, Apologetics Canada, our Instagram tag is just Apologetics Canada. Nowadays, it we we feel like we're the prize pony, so it's not hard to find us. So you can just type in Apologetics Canada. We have a host of resources on there as well as, like, the the AC podcast.
Troy Lydiate:
We put out weekly episodes, and, that that's really the the simplest way.
Wendi Park:
Awesome. I'll make sure I have all those links in the show notes for our listeners if you wanna it. Care lingo. Alright. We are in our Care lingo segment. I think it it's appropriate to use the term apologetics today. Hey, Wendy?
Johan Heinrichs:
Oh, that sounds like the perfect word. Oh, we could have fun with this.
Wendi Park:
K. Well, I'm supposed to give the wrong definition for this. So if I was someone first hearing this word, this is kind of what came to my mind. If I heard someone say they're into apologetics, I would think that they're in some sort of weird exercising class that mixes exercising and apologies, you know, kind of like a quasi Canadian exercise thing that we do in the church maybe where we get to repent while exercising. We apologize for things for our misdeeds and our sins. But, you know, mixing exercising and apologies together.
Johan Heinrichs:
Yeah. I see. I was gonna piggyback off of that similar vein. I was thinking of I know it's a course. It's a it's an academic thing. So I was thinking of something that I would register for in Canada, of course, to learn how to apologize well. And we we do like to say sorry, but maybe to expand our vocabulary, take an apologetics course. You'll get really good at saying sorry as a Canadian.
Wendi Park:
And you're gonna get a good workout, apparently. So
Troy Lydiate:
And a good
Wendi Park:
workout. So Troy, you're the expert here. What does apologetics actually mean?
Troy Lydiate:
Okay. So apologetics comes from the Greek word apologia, which means to defend or in defense of. And where we kinda get the apologist creed is out of first Peter three fifteen where it says, always be ready to give an answer to anyone who may ask you the reason for the hope that is within you. And this is the caveat, do so with gentleness and respect. So apologetics and and it's funny because I thought, honestly, the same thing when I first came into this world. I was like, okay. What am I what am I saying sorry for? The church is sorry for x y z or whatever. But yeah.
Troy Lydiate:
So that's that's apologetics. And one of the cool things about it is that it's not just one topic. I thought that apologetics was just a bunch of guys in blazers and brown loafers arguing over
Johan Heinrichs:
It used to be.
Troy Lydiate:
It used to it used to be.
Johan Heinrichs:
When I was in seminary, it used to be.
Troy Lydiate:
So that's that's what I thought it was, and then I showed up and kinda blew that all apart.
Johan Heinrichs:
Then you put it into rap form.
Troy Lydiate:
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And so apologetics covers a wide range of topics and but it's really defending the various aspects of the Christian belief and faith according to scripture, obviously.
Johan Heinrichs:
And how appropriate because we were just talking about the hope and having a reason for hope, apologetics. You would hardly see it in the same sentence as cynicism, but it's it's giving reason to the hope that we have. Yeah. And so I encourage all our listeners to check out, Apologetics Canada. And thank you so much, Troy.
Troy Lydiate:
Yep. Thank you, guys.
Wendi Park:
Thank you for joining us on Journey with Care. To get more information on weekly episodes, upcoming opportunities, or to connect with our community, visit journeywithcare.ca, or find Care Impact on Facebook and Instagram, or just check the show notes for these links and all the links related to this episode. Share your thoughts, leave us a message, and be part of a network of individuals journeying in faith and purpose. Together, let's discover how we can make a meaningful impact.
