Not Us and Them—Just Us: Lessons from the Well Café | Steve Griffin
Description
In this conversation, Shannon and Steve Griffin discuss the intersection of community development and church outreach, emphasizing the importance of building relationships with vulnerable populations. Steve shares his journey from traditional pastoral roles to working directly with those in poverty, highlighting the significance of dignity, belonging, and the power of storytelling in ministry. They explore how volunteers can engage meaningfully with their communities and the transformative impact of connection and service.
Takeaways
Community development is about building relationships, not just providing services.
Isolation is the biggest issue for vulnerable populations, not lack of resources.
Dignity and belonging are essential in outreach ministries.
Listening to people's stories is crucial for understanding their needs.
Volunteering should be seen as a calling, not just an obligation.
Transformative stories often come from deep personal struggles.
The church should be a place of belonging for everyone.
Rescue can lead to reconciliation and restoration in communities.
Everyone has a role to play in serving those in need.
Awareness of our surroundings can lead to meaningful connections.
Time Stamps
05:09 "Relational Outreach Through Ministry"
10:31 Listening Without Assumptions
13:58 "Mobilizing Love on the Margins"
15:36 "Volunteering with Purpose and Calling"
20:09 "Seeking God in Brokenness"
23:31 "Rescue, Reconciliation, Restoration"
25:55 "Awareness and Compassion in Action"
30:04 "Embracing God's Call to Serve"
Guest Links
Ministry: Centre Street Church
Book: Come to the Table: Mobilizing the Church to Love on the Margins
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Steve Griffin:
Tell me your story. And that's what people are looking for. Is there someone out there who actually cares about my story?
Johan Heinrichs:
Every one of us has a story about someone who showed up when it mattered most. I'm Johan, and this is Neighbourly, a podcast about the ordinary ways people show extraordinary care. Every other week, Shannon Steeves s sits down with someone who's lived that out. Real stories of faith, kindness, and community in action. So grab your coffee and let's join Shannon at the table.
Shannon Steeves:
I'm Shannon Steeves, and this is neighbourly. Today we're talking about isolation, one of the quiet realities shaping so much pain in our communities. My guest is Steve Griffin, a pastor in Calgary who leads Centre for the City at centre Street Church, where he spent years walking alongside people on the margins and creating spaces where isolation gives way to belonging. In this conversation, Steve invites us to rethink what it looks like to love our neighbour. Not by fixing, but by showing up. Okay, Steve. Well, thank you so much for coming on this podcast. Can't wait to chat with you today.
Shannon Steeves:
Every episode, we start with a little icebreaker question just to kind of level things. So I'd love to hear who was a neighbour for you growing up that you will never forget?
Steve Griffin:
Yeah, it's probably a little bit of a different story, Shannon. I. I grew up in a neighbourhood. I grew up in Ontario, originally from Ontario. There was a. A single mom, actually an older woman, that had one son and lived in a house in our neighbourhood. And the house, you know, it looked like almost like it was a haunted house. It was boarded up and so on.
Steve Griffin:
And so. So I think she and her son, you know, there was just a lot of teasing and that kind of thing. And then one day, her son was actually beat up at school fairly badly. And one of the parents in the neighbourhood said, you know, we're gonna do something about this, and reached out to that woman and then began a relationship, and that really changed things. And then the woman began to get quite involved in the neighbourhood with other people. And we began to find that, you know, this really was a sweet person who'd had some very difficult circumstances. And to me, I tell that story because to me, that's a picture of what neighbourhood can be moving us beyond, you know, sort of preconceived notions or judgments or prejudices or whatever the case may be. So that.
Steve Griffin:
Yeah, I'll never forget that kind of circumstance.
Shannon Steeves:
That's beautiful. And I love that. Not just neighbourhood's not just a physical place. It's also kind of this I guess concept, right. And this place of being and belonging, that's a really, I think, thought provoking example that so many of us can, can just think on. So I, and I think that's a great segue. Can you share a little bit more of your story and just how you got first connected to kind of the work that you do now?
Steve Griffin:
Yeah, it's a bit of a long, winding story. I would say that the place that I, that I came to was an understanding just through the various circumstances in life that I just was just very much called to a work with those in poverty. And so I for a long time was a pastor sort of in suburbia in the west, in Alberta, and really had nothing at all to do with vulnerable people and just went through some personal circumstances where, where I took on a different role at Mustard Seed Ministry here in Calgary and in Alberta, working with those who were homeless and then eventually just really felt God lead me to bring that world into the local church. And so I work church called centre Street Church, Calgary, one of Canada's largest churches. And we've built there over the last number of years a ministry centre that ministers to new immigrants and refugees and ministers to those in poverty. And so we work with, we connect with about 1800 people a month. And one of the pieces that I think just really connects with your question is, and this podcast, quite frankly, is that the work that we do is within a cafe setting with those in poverty. And we call those that come their neighbours.
Steve Griffin:
And so that is kind of how we refer to them. And it really is about building. And so that's kind of impacts all that we do, including the work with new immigrants and refugees. But I really do feel that that is my primary call to really build a place of belonging and gathering for those in poverty so that they truly live out that reality that we are all neighbours, that we're tearing those walls down. And so I work in lead a ministry centre called centre for the City and lots of people come, as I mentioned. But. But it just really, that is what in ministry and mission, this is where I want to be. This is.
Steve Griffin:
These are the things I want to be doing.
Shannon Steeves:
Wow. Well, there's so many, so many more questions I want to ask, but I think the first thing that really sticks out to me is when it comes to outreach ministries and especially in the church, I think we've seen a lot of variation throughout decades and in different contexts of what that can look like, at least that's been my experience that in some spaces it's you know, a food hamper. In some spaces, it's, you know, maybe a foster care ministry or whatever. But I think the way you have brought a vision into your church and to do that in such a relational, dignifying way, like you said, through a cafe setting, I think is really, really impactful and really the direction that I believe personally, we, as. As believers should be, should be going, that it's not just about providing the physical and the tangible things. It's also about the relational connection. And I don't think those really should be separated.
Steve Griffin:
Yeah, absolutely.
Shannon Steeves:
Yeah. So I guess I want to hear more about that in your heart of bringing that into the church and helping, you know, the big C church kind of understand that maybe different way of. Of ministry. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Steve Griffin:
Yeah, yeah. I think the reality. We're in a large city and we're in a very large church, and I think the. The church has had, by intention, has had an investment or has desired an investment that, that everyone who. Who calls himself a citizen or is a part of the city, you know, that there is a place for them. And I think to me that just connects perfectly with my own calling and my own sense of the fact that this is what church should be. And we don't enter this in terms of, well, these are the many people that need to come in faith in Christ. And these are the things that we want to see in terms of what people are doing and how they're engaging in the church generally, but rather that there is place and that there is space for people to come to know that they can be fully who they are.
Steve Griffin:
And you mentioned the word dignity, so that there's dignity there. And there's an opportunity to say that no matter where you have come from, this is a place where you can connect in. And so what we hear from people all the time, and as I mentioned, we worked with hundreds of people, is this is my family. This is like family. This is my family. This is my home. Not this is like a home, but this is my home. And so people begin to connect in that way.
Steve Griffin:
And I think that, you know, psychologists say the number one problem in our society for those who are vulnerable is not. It's not housing, it's not food, it's not clothing, it's isolation. That's the number one issue that people have. And so. So I think there really is a call here in our. In our community, which we call the well Cafe, and drawing that from the idea of living water in the well. And that's that's where that's. That's drawn from, that truly, we want a place where people feel, well, maybe I can walk out of isolation and maybe I can walk out of some pain in my life.
Steve Griffin:
And as I sit around tables and as I connect with other people, which includes people, you know, from the community and people that might be volunteers here and that kind of thing, then that starts to make a difference. And I think that that is representative of what Jesus is calling the church to be. There is a place for everyone. And one of the examples I use often, as I've taught, especially in the last year in this is Zacchaeus and Jesus. Jesus looks at Zacchaeus up in the tree, the story, and says, I am eating at your house today. Come down. We're going to your house. So we don't hear more of this story, but to project that he's sitting at a table with Zacchaeus in his house, looking face to face, eye to eye, and beginning to tell me your story.
Steve Griffin:
And that's what people are looking for. Is there someone out there who actually cares about my story? You know, I was so moved at one point by a conversation I had with someone who is homeless. And I said, you know, what do you need? Like, what's the number one thing you would need in your life? And he said, that someone would want to have a conversation with me. I love that. That's my dream. And, like, that's heartbreaking beyond all comprehension, but that, you know, that kind of idea. So I think that that is what we. Jesus intends us to be, you know, the church to be.
Shannon Steeves:
I love those stories and those specific examples that you've shared that really kind of made me think about this next question of. Has over time, have there been certain instances or conversations you've had with people that have confronted or challenged maybe some of your own comfortability or your own assumptions about what people need?
Steve Griffin:
Oh, yeah, I think. Yeah. You know, I think often, and I think the mistake that I made, even going in, even. Even having worked at the Mustard Seed, and it's. It's a. It's a ministry of the homeless and pretty well known out here. You know, you kind of think, oh, well, I know it. You know, I kind of know what it's like to work with, yeah.
Steve Griffin:
Homeless people and vulnerable people and so on. And I think what we learn and what I've learned at centre street in terms of what we built over the last nine years is just really to not make assumptions about who someone is who's vulnerable or in poverty or what they're going through. And I'm very careful to never say, you know, I. That I can identify with someone because I can't. I can try and understand. And we can only minister to people that we are at least trying to understand where they're coming from, but I can't identify. And, you know, I think the reality is, is that some of the stories are so outside my own context that the number one thing I've had to learn to do is to put aside any kind of preconceived sort of notions, right? And, and just listen, right? And. And that's, that's the number one thing we can do rather than saying sitting down with somebody going, okay, well, you know, what do you need? And let me try, you know, and I think the thing is, is just, you know, again, it's.
Steve Griffin:
It's. I just need to listen to someone's story and, and I'll listen to it. And, you know, I guess it's active listening right now. Listen to it in the sense. Well, okay, I'm. I'm calculating what, you know, I need to say next or. But to just really realize that, you know, tell me kind of what that journey's been like for you. And I want to just let you know that we're here for you.
Steve Griffin:
And I think the picture, the picture I'm really trying to present, most of all, it's not about sitting down with someone. And I've got all the answers for your life that's going to change your life in some incredible ways. Because I'm not your hero. There's only one hero, and that's, of course, Jesus. You know, I might be a guide in some ways, but really what we're trying to present to people is Jesus is sitting here at this table with us. And so Jesus is the one that will really minister to what you need and to who you are and so on. And I think we have to approach it in that way because as I said, so many stories are outside of context and so many stories are so deeply heartbreaking that some of them, even when you first hear certain stories, you kind of. I don't even know if I can even believe this.
Steve Griffin:
And then you realize, of course, that. That because of the pain you're seeing, that it is something that's true. But I think that's the focus. It really is just that focus of being there in those ways.
Shannon Steeves:
It's so simple, right? And yet sometimes we just want to share what we think is best. And time and time again, thankfully with the Holy Spirit and remind us that that's not the point. It's just like you said, just being. And just being a safe, listening ear for somebody.
Steve Griffin:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Shannon Steeves:
You mentioned a little bit ago you talked about volunteers, and I'd love to hear more about what that, I guess it looks like at the centre because, you know, we're really, as a podcast, but as an organization, we really want to help, you know, average, ordinary people see their. Their call to love their neighbour. And I guess not just see that, but step into that in practical ways. And can you share what does. I guess what does volunteering look like at the centre? But also, how have you helped coach and develop people as you've been learning and growing yourself with serving those that are in poverty?
Steve Griffin:
Well, I wrote a book that was one thing I did. It's called Come to the Mobilizing the Church to Love on the Margins. And the book was written. It's the second book I've written in this kind of context, but it really was written to help people understand what it is to sit down at tables with people in poverty and to just get to know them and to enter in and recognize that we receive as much, if not far more, than they ever receive from us, that kind of idea. And so I think the volunteer piece is the first thing for us, and it takes time to do that, but it's to really build a unified team element. So people move away from this idea, which we have heard so much at different times. Hey, you know, here's something that I'm going to offer to someone in poverty, and it's just going to. It's going to change their life.
Steve Griffin:
They need me, and I can offer this and so on. And really trying to steer people away from that as we mentor them and saying, you know, we are. The Bible says that God is no respecter of persons. That means we are all equal in God's sight. And this idea that when we're coming into this setting in this. In this example, you know, the well Cafe is that we are just one people and we're together. You know, we're a missional community together, and we're just learning from each other and we're trying to grow along with each other, and we need to be here with each other for the long haul. And so I think that's the most important thing because I think that people want to.
Steve Griffin:
We're a large church, and there's kind of two really big areas in which you can volunteer in this church, and that's with children's ministries and not everybody has children, so on, so they want to be involved in that. And the other is this area centre for the city. And I think we're trying to get people's minds away from. Oh, well, you know, I feel like I should volunteer someplace because, you know, the preaching pastor said I should, or whatever the case may be, move people away from this to the reality of call. You either have a call or you'd like to explore a call of what it is to walk with the poor. And again, walking with the poor is there for the. You're there for the long haul, and you're there to invest and build relationship and have them do the same with you. Right.
Steve Griffin:
And so I think we've really. We started very, very small, the cafe kind of setting. We started in 2018. We had 20 people and three volunteers attending. Now we do a hot meal twice a week. We see 700 people come. And I have 190 volunteers involved in that. And it really has just been that slow building of.
Steve Griffin:
This is the work. This is what it means. It's not about doing something. It's about being called into something. Right. And so I think that that's, you know, and so the book that I wrote is really just anybody who's not involved in that and wonders if that's for them. You know, it's an encouragement in that way. The first thing that I make mention of in the book is the fact that, well, we're actually all called to minister to the poor.
Steve Griffin:
It's very clear in the gospel. So there's that. Right. But how we do that is. Is, you know, different for each person. But. But yeah, so I think that's what we're really trying to, you know, and I think that I mentioned a little bit before, too, but us versus them want to tear down that wall completely. This is us.
Steve Griffin:
This is us together. This is. This is. We're just journeying together in something, and Jesus is there in the midst of it.
Shannon Steeves:
Mm, that's so good. I. I love what you said that it's really not a question of if we're called. It's more so just how. How God is asking us to step into walking with the vulnerable people in our lives or maybe just starting by being around people, stepping outside of our. Our bubbles and our. Our comfort zones and all those things.
Steve Griffin:
Absolutely.
Shannon Steeves:
I wanted to just ask. You mentioned a few stories. Is there any. Any other stories that you feel like you want to share that really capture the heart of. Of why the centre exists or just how You've seen that growth and development over time. Anything that comes to mind. I.
Steve Griffin:
Well, I think there's, like there, there are many, you know, and I think we, we. And I'll mention, you know, one or two specific. But I think one of the line. One of the kind of taglines we've used from time to time is everything we do rises and falls on story, right? You know, on people's story, we got numbers, we got larger numbers and so on, but the numbers really don't matter. It doesn't matter if there's 20 or there's 200 or whatever that number is. It really is a ministry that focuses on people kind of one at a time, right? And that's kind of where we want to be. What, you know, where are you at? And so I mentioned story. And so we, we kind of use these three elements where we say, you know, tell us your story, and we'd love to have an opportunity to share our story, you know, why we're here, as well as.
Steve Griffin:
As a volunteer, whatever the case may be, and then join his story. Join the fact that God has a story for you, you know, that, that. And God is leading you into that story. And, you know, I think it's. If people find a place even when they're in the midst of a very, very broken story, and yet they know I need to keep coming here because there's enough here that connects with me. And so I think one of the most dramatic stories in the last few years as being I was dealing with someone. We had an ongoing kind of connection and relationship. And he kept coming.
Steve Griffin:
He'd come for meals and so on. And one day I just sat down, had a deeper conversation with him, and he told me a story of child sexual abuse that was beyond. Was heartbreaking. It was, you know, he went into. He went into some. Some graphic kind of detail and, and didn't even tell me the whole thing. And. And then he said to me, I don't know where God was when that happened.
Steve Griffin:
And I feel like God has let me down, and I don't know if I can ever forgive God for that. And I just felt by the Holy Spirit to ask him a question. I said, well, then why are you here? Like, why do you come here? Right? Because he came to the cafe and he was also actually attending worship services at our church. And he said, because I believe that if I have the opportunity to find God, if there's a place where he is, it has to be here. And just in terms of what he experienced out of community. And so he's searching for God there, you know, and so I think stories like that, which are difficult stories, and a lot of the stories which are the really important stories are difficult stories. It just is, you know, and we hear stories where people are not, you know, having as deep a level of kind of brokenness or difficulty, and they're coming and they're being a part of things, and they may be low income and so on, but I think what those stories do is they really show us that God is present and God exists in this place. And.
Steve Griffin:
And, you know, I. I was dealing with, or just ministering to and walking with an indigenous gentleman and. And had committed his life to Christ, but was. Was still in. In alcohol addiction and was struggling. And so he'd show up every once in a while and come to sometimes not so much at the cafe, but at the church, and we'd have conversations and we'd connect and so on. And then he said, you know, I really need some food. And I said, well, I'll get an emergency hamper together for you and meet me at the church.
Steve Griffin:
And he didn't show up. And then about 10 days later, a gentleman came to me and he said, I need to see Pastor Steve. And I said, well, that's me. How can I help you? And he said, can we sit down and talk? And I said, yeah. And so we sat down and he said, I'm this gentleman whose name was Blair. I'm this gentleman's. He's my brother. And we lived together.
Steve Griffin:
And I went home the other night and found him passed away. And he said, I need to come and find you. I need to talk to you right away, because I just want to let you know that Blair struggled his whole life not finding. Not finding belonging anywhere, not finding that he's a part of things anywhere and struggled in this brokenness, struggled in this addiction until he came to the well and he said, I want to let you know that that was his family, that that was the only place he found where he had meaning. And, you know, like, stories like that, they're hard to hear. And what I mean by that is it's hard to even take in that what we are doing has that kind of impact until you stand back and go, well, this isn't us. Yeah, this isn't us. This is Jesus.
Steve Griffin:
This is the Holy Spirit at work. And this is what God does. That God does every single day with hundreds of people here, hundreds of people in Winnipeg, hundreds of people right across our country. Right? You know, and I think those are the kinds of stories that we want to continue to hear. And there's just. There's. There's more and more and more of those kinds of stories where. Where either there's those very hard things or people just simply say, as I mentioned earlier, you know what, this is a place of belonging for me.
Steve Griffin:
And one of the things that we really have focused on, I think, in the last year, is that we were a place of rescue. So that when people come out of wherever they've been in brokenness, that as they sit at a table with other people or they get clothing in a line or whatever the case may be, what they. They come to understand is that rescue, which can then lead to reconciliation, which can then lead to restoration. That. That is a possibility. And it's a possibility because of community. Right. And we use this, you know, and we call people that we serve neighbours because we really care about the fact that we're not just focused on what happens within a cafe, within a church building, but we're really concerned about a church without walls, where we're looking into the community and saying, this happens in neighbourhoods.
Steve Griffin:
That's where it starts. My dream is that people that we minister to will leave the cafe, still continue to attend there, but when they leave, they go into their own places where they live and most are housed, and they, you know, they. They minister and connect with other people in those ways in neighbourhoods. Right.
Shannon Steeves:
So, wow. So profound and this deeply, deeply relational. Our director, Wendy, she always says she even finds that it's not a lack of resources that are out there, but a lack of connection. The resources get found one way or another. People give or whatever it might be. But when there's connection, that transforms so much. Another episode of a podcast I talked about with somebody, they talked about just saying yes to, you know, when God asks us to move our feet or to. To take a step.
Shannon Steeves:
And so I think my last question really is. Is about that, that for people who are listening to this and are stirred by what these stories you've been. You've been sharing, but maybe aren't in a, you know, a pastoral position like you or in an organization like myself, in doing this kind of work full time, what does it look like for them, for the average family or young adults or older adults or whoever, I guess, who don't know where to start, what would you encourage them to do?
Steve Griffin:
You know, I think the very beginning point is to just be aware to. To just open our eyes as believers, as Christ followers, and see what's around us. And so really, when I talk about neighbourhoods, that's where it is as neighbours in neighbourhoods. What's happening? Who am I seeing on the street? Who am I seeing in the grocery store? What kind of stories am I picking up on? All of those kinds of things. And I think that this idea of walking with the poor or walking with those and vulnerable is just paying attention and saying, is there some way that, yeah, I can pray for someone, I can have a, a kind word for someone. You know, so many people that, that, you know, if you situation, you see someone panhandling on the street or, or something like that, that's the, you know, in traffic, doing that or, or whatever. I mean, often there's just so much fear in even saying hello to someone, you know, and, and, and talking to them and maybe getting a bit of their story and so on. So, so I think that that's the place that, that we start where we just, we're aware of that and we're looking around this.
Steve Griffin:
What does that mean within neighbourhoods? Because we don't live in a society as much as we once did, where we are aware of, even on our street, right? Who are our neighbours on our street and who are we connecting with? And so we don't. We tend to retreat into our homes and that kind of thing. So I think that's the first thing, and I think the next thing is it doesn't matter where you do it. I think the, the reality is that when we're talking about those who are vulnerable, whatever that vulnerability looks like, that we simply want to befriend those people and find ways. And so sometimes that's a case of going to where they are. And so, yeah, volunteering is very locally, and we can do that kind of in a number of different contexts and so on. But again, it's this idea where Jesus says, the poor you will always have with you. So what does that mean? Is Jesus saying, well, okay, so ignore them? No, he's definitely not saying that.
Steve Griffin:
Is he saying, be aware of them? Yes, he's saying that. And he's saying, is there some way in which you can connect with them and make a difference with them? Because guess what? And this is the other kind of piece of that is that you also are poor. We're all poor. We're all broken. We're all in need of things. We all have these things that we've struggled with and that we need to work through. And there have been times for all of us in our lives where someone has been there, right? And so it just really is that. It's being there.
Steve Griffin:
And so being aware, being there. Finding ways in which we can just go and just make a difference. You know, again, it's that moving out of isolation and out of pain and into connection. So. And it doesn't take being a pastor. It doesn't even take being part of a formal ministry. It really takes just, where is Jesus going to use me today? Right. And.
Steve Griffin:
And I get up. I. I don't really. I don't focus, to be honest. We have a fair, large ministry and so on. I don't really focus on leadership, and I don't really focus on that piece. What I really focus on is service. I get up every morning and.
Steve Griffin:
And my prayer to God every morning is, show me how you want me to serve, where you're having me serve today. Right. What does that look like? You know, as opposed to, hey, I'm the boss and I'm, you know, whatever, you know, nobody calls me boss, by the way. So, you know, just go in and let's just serve together. And I think there is nothing more critical that we all grab ahold of from the Gospels than that Jesus came as one to serve, and we are called to serve, and we need to find where that service is for each of us. Yeah.
Shannon Steeves:
Amen. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. If people want to learn more about the centre, how can they do that?
Steve Griffin:
So you can go to cschurch ca, which is our general website, and you'll find a button there that says centre for the City. And so just click on that button and it'll bring out all the information and contact all the things that we do. It's all going to be there. Yeah.
Shannon Steeves:
Is there anything else you want to share, Steve? Anything that you feel like is on your heart?
Steve Griffin:
I think just. And, Shannon, thank you for some of those questions. And I think that is my heartbeat coming out of those questions that people would be leaning into Jesus and praying about. What does it look like for me? Because God has called us all to walk with those who are in poverty, walk with those who are vulnerable, walk with those in need. What does that look like for me, right where I live, right where I am, and God, would you show me that? And so I think that that's. I think that that's really just my encouragement to people to really lean into that and know that God, you know, God has something there for you. There's a biblical principle that people sometimes get wrong, and they say, well, if God calls me to something and I don't do it, then someone else will do it. And actually that's unbiblical.
Steve Griffin:
If God calls you to something and you don't do it, you it won't get done because it was for you and God had a specific purpose for you. And then there's judgment for the fact that we didn't do that. Right, that we were disobedient. And so I think that's the great place for us to be, to really think, yes, God has something for me, Father God, show me what that is so I can lean into it.
Shannon Steeves:
Amazing. Thank you so much, Pastor Steve. I have been so blessed this conversation and I know so many others will be as well.
Steve Griffin:
Thanks Shannon. I love being with you.
Johan Heinrichs:
The stories we share here remind us that CARE doesn't have to be perfect to be powerful, it just has to be present. neighbourly is an initiative of Care Impact, a Canadian charity equipping churches, agencies and communities with tech and training to care better together. Visit Care Impact, careamp ca or to find out more about the podcast sponsorships, being a guest or just dropping us a line, visit neighbourlyPodcast CA. We'd love to hear from you. Check the show notes for the link or hop on our Care Impact Podcast group on Facebook to join our podcast community. I'm Johan. Thanks for listening and keep being the kind of neighbour someone will never forget in a good way.
